Author Topic: [Suggestion]Training bonus from match should depend a bit on actions in game  (Read 4091 times)

Brian Clough

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So it seems to me that in a match, if a player that actually does whatever his training is set to, he should get an extra bonus, or should only get a reduced bonus if not. Some examples:

Training focus     Game action that would trigger bonus (or stop reduction)
Set pieces             Player set as free kick or corner taker and/or takes at least 2-3 of them
Aerial                   Player attempts header goal or uses head to block cross/shot at least twice
Attacking              Player set to "more attack" in lineup
Passing                 Player attempts at least 5 passes and/or manages at least 50% completion rate
Creativity              Tactics set to "more creative freedom"; efficiency of this tactic may factor in too
Defending             Player set to "more defend" in lineup and/or wins the ball through tackling, positioning, etc. 3-5X
Goalkeepers          GK is tested at least 3-4 times
Speed                  Player is involved in counterattack or footrace to the ball at least 2-3 times
Shooting              Player takes at least 2-3 shots on goal (could work for long shots or finishing too)
Ball Control          Player is set to run with ball "often"
Stamina               Player plays entire 90+ minutes; maybe an additional bonus for playing 120 minutes

and so on....Some bonuses may even increase if these thresholds are exceeded significantly (e.g. 6-9 shots on goal for shooting)

I don't know how feasible this is in the short term, but it would be nice to see something like this eventually; it just seems silly for a player to get a bonus when they don't even attempt to do whatever their training focus is.




« Last Edit: November 29, 2011, 12:35:22 AM by Champione »
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gabrielis

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and what will decide how big bonnus will be?don't you think it will affect tactics too much?atm im training creativity but players has too low of it to play creatively yet so it would effect games (less hearts).or if using deffenders more attack so would need to change tactics to get some defend training bonnus. dunno if any1 will prefere training bonnus instead of better team results

Brian Clough

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and what will decide how big bonnus will be?don't you think it will affect tactics too much?atm im training creativity but players has too low of it to play creatively yet so it would effect games (less hearts).or if using deffenders more attack so would need to change tactics to get some defend training bonnus. dunno if any1 will prefere training bonnus instead of better team results

For me it's a trade-off like when playing young players; there's a chance they'll make a mistake (or 2) and so their use in league matches needs to be thought out well - maybe only play them for the last 30 min if you're winning by a few goals. Tactics like creativity can be compensated by playing your most creative players and subbing out the lowest for the young player.  After all, a big part of learning is making mistakes...

In case I wasn't clear, I don't think that this should be the sole determinant of training bonus during matches, but it should have some effect IMO.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2011, 05:20:54 PM by Champione »
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Etienne

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issue with that system is that the better is the player, the more he will train.
So I disagree with this idea.

Kr10s

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issue with that system is that the better is the player, the more he will train.
So I disagree with this idea.

QFT

Even in its essence seems interesting, i believe it would push managers to lose matches just to make sure their players improve something they cannot do, i don't like it.

It might be interesting if we could have some "Team Stats", so if a team plays pressing, its "team pressing" stat could increase...... push players to do something they cannot do doesn't have much sense IMHO, people train players to win matches, lose matches to train players is a nonesense.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2011, 01:14:31 PM by CarlosT »
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gabrielis

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Even in its essence seems interesting, i believe it would push managers to lose matches just to make sure their players improve something they cannot do, i don't like it.
It might be interesting if we could have some "Team Stats", so if a team plays pressing, its "team pressing" stat could increase...... push players to do something they cannot do doesn't have much sense IMHO, people train players to win matches, lose matches to train players is a nonesense.

For once I dont agree with you. IF you press players to do something they are not good at, that is the chance you take. In the long run it might be a good idea, but here and now you will get punished. I support the motion that the role in the team will affect his skill and experience in that role.

This is a game of strategy, and if your long term strategy is to train youngsters as superb tacklers, well so be it. How well they perform need not affect the gain and will be balanced out anyhow. The better the skill, the harder to increase it. It seems fair that putting a player in a position where he does alot of dribbling increases his dribbling skills, not the heading skill his training scheme sets him up for.

Whether you want to play youngsters where they can perform the best here and now, or playing him in a position where the potential to increase skill is better but perform worse, that should be depending on the managers wishes.

so if player skill depends on is role, for egz. attacker moved more attack, playing whole 90 mins., shooting a lot, playing in counter attacks and passing a bit, should improve attacking, passing, stamina and etc. coz he was actualy doing all that.even if he isn't good at it but he did all that stuff and gained some exp.if player shooted a lot and was runing whole match is it fair to reward only with stamina bonnus?

Brian Clough

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...is it fair to reward only with stamina bonnus?

This gets at something else entirely than what I was suggesting. You seem to be disagreeing with the way players get training bonuses in just one skill based on their training focus as it works now. I think that is fine, and don't want to change it. Also, I'm not suggesting that players should get all kinds of bonuses in multiple skills if they fulfill more than one of the conditions I laid out in my first post, just the one for their training focus.

My point is that it seems silly, for example, for a GK to get the full GK training bonus if they don't ever have to make a save or get involved in the match. My suggestion wasn't that a player shouldn't get any training bonus if they don't actually do whatever it is they're training to do, but that it should be less than if the player actually does (or is instructed to do) something relevant to it. I'm talking about a small effect here, too, something like PR x 0.01 when CA<LA, PR x 0.005 when CA=LA, and nothing once CA>LA.

Also, I don't think this would
...push managers to lose matches just to make sure their players improve something they cannot do....

Now while this might happen in friendly matches where the outcome doesn't matter, I don't see a savvy manager sacrificing league points for a few hundredths of a skill point for their players. Managers consistently sub in young players specifically for skill bonuses even in league matches without the possibility of the bonus I'm suggesting.  For example, say you play a lineup of creative players for most of the match (and set tactics to more creative expression), and then sub in a young player at 60' who is not too creative but is training for creativity. Or you play a young GK because you are confident of a win no matter who is in goal. That happens all the time, and is precisely the point of using advance instructions to stipulate the substitution only happens if you are winning (if you care about winning, that is).

In an attempt to further clarify, the effect of my suggestion for a player with a PR 4 (and CA<LA)in a league match would be something like:
0.32 bonus for playing >30 min and a 0.04 bonus/penalty for fulfilling/not fulfilling the condition for their training focus in my first post = 0.28 or 0.36 training bonus

For a player with PR3 whose CA=LA, the bonus would drop to:
0.03 for playing and 0.015 bonus/penalty for fulfilling/not fulfilling the condition for their training focus in my first post = 0.015 or 0.045 training bonus.

Basically, IMO a player should get a little more if they apply their training and a little less if they don't. That's it.
 ;D
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Brian Clough

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More pragmatically, it would be nice to at least just award very small (0.01 x PR or half this much when CA>LA) additional bonuses for particular players in addition to the regular training bonus depending on a few key tactical settings:

Player Setting                                             Skill Bonus (selected randomly among skills)
Set to more attack                                         Attacking (crossing, creativity, off the ball or passing)
Set to more defend or as target man marker    Defending (positioning, marking, tackling, or passing)
Set as target man                                          Shooting (finishing or long shots)
Set as corner or freekick taker                        Setpiece                         

- Also, the GK training bonus should be dramatically reduced when there are zero (0) saves (shots on target minus goals scored) made.

My hope is that these might be simple enough changes that they could be implemented in the next season or two. ;)
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Jansen

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I think about training is ok now. I think you should forgot it and try to upgrade training facilities is better. I don't know Why you not upgrade?  ;)

Brian Clough

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Upgrades serve their purpose, to be sure, I just think these roles should contribute to skill improvement of players and, as a result, it should factor into tactical decisions. It's not that big of a deal, it just seems like a relatively small and simple thing that would enhance tactical decision-making and realism simultaneously, while also providing small but significant opportunities to conduct player training in multiple skills at the same time.
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