Author Topic: tired players (Read 7288 times)

Ologga · « **on:** October 29, 2011, 12:11:04 PM »

Another problem in GKO is that the teams that have some international players, have a problem with them each saturday in the league because they arrive with a 2% of fatigue, added to 10% from the wednesday match, and if as is my situation, you hace 5-6 international players that goes with their national team every weeks, is a problem, added too if you are playing WCL. A lot of fatigue.

Then, I propose for future seasons, that national team cups may be played in preseason, in the 2 weeks when the season is stopped, or at least the competition should stop when national teams are playing, as in real life, for not interfere in team competition.

that's all, thank you.

webinchi · « **Reply #1 on:** October 29, 2011, 12:30:21 PM »

I think the people who dont have national players have more posibiilities to win, that makes the game more equal.

I dont have a great team, and that helps to have a chance to win to big teams in the league.

Ologga · « **Reply #2 on:** October 29, 2011, 12:45:07 PM »

I agree with you, you are reason but I think that have international players must be an advantage, not a problem.

johnblasa · « **Reply #3 on:** October 29, 2011, 02:17:32 PM »

I'm agrre with Oolga, WCL on Thursday Championship on Wed and Sat and Cup Mon, is too, change at less WCL in another day

Brian Clough · « **Reply #4 on:** October 29, 2011, 11:29:41 PM »

This has already been proposed and admin has passed the suggestion to its tech team.

With any luck, this will be the last season where national team matches happen concurrently with league and cup matches, though it might be nice to have international breaks every few weeks (for friendlies and qualifiers), possibly replacing a league matchday to address the fatigue issue.

See here: http://forum.gokickoff.com/index.php?topic=3227.0

Etienne · « **Reply #5 on:** October 29, 2011, 11:48:07 PM »

season is already very long, not sure that adding breaks would be effective ...

Kr10s · « **Reply #6 on:** October 30, 2011, 12:26:29 AM »

Have you considered increase your squad's size? Even in real life, squads with few players can't stand the pace, they need to have more players as backup.

Free players were a great chance, if people'd hire them you wouldn't have problems.

Brian Clough · « **Reply #7 on:** October 30, 2011, 01:46:34 AM »

Quote from: CarlosT on October 30, 2011, 12:26:29 AM

Have you considered increase your squad's size? Even in real life, squads with few players can't stand the pace, they need to have more players as backup.

True, but also in real life, many top level leagues also have "International breaks"; weekends where league matches are not held because NT matches are being held. Importantly, these breaks only feature qualifiers and friendlies. There's a reason that the World Cup is the one competition that is not held concurrent with most other league seasons. Also, this option (to increase squad size) is not available to NT managers.

Meanwhile, here in the USA, our football season actually happens through the summer

What this means for NT players is that their clubs have to say goodbye to them for from a few days to a month or more, depending on the competition. But then, there's also NO promotion and relegation, trapped as we are in the franchise system

My point is that if we are going to have serious international competitions like a World Cup, then it either needs to happen outside of the league season or happen concurrently, but NT players say bye bye (that means you can't play them on your clubs) during the whole thing. Big competitions like the WC should also get a week or two beforehand to ensure all their players are adequately rested. Personally, I'd like to see both: A longer break between every other season for both U21 and regular WCs, but NT players are restricted from playing in club matches (equivalent to a ban). Maybe during these extended breaks, we could also get more opportunities for friendlies than normal (2 or 3 per week) so we can develop our youngsters.

Quote from: CarlosT on October 30, 2011, 12:26:29 AM

Free players were a great chance, if people'd hire them you wouldn't have problems.

I'm really starting to like the ones from tiny nations without national teams....

Kr10s · « **Reply #8 on:** October 30, 2011, 02:04:09 AM »

What you say is true, there's "FIFA Dates" when clubs don't play league matches and their int'l players plays for their NT...... even if set int'l dates might be interesting, you must also consider it's price: people will complain because they don't have matches's income..... it's sad, but every season transition is the same story, of course, it would be the best solution for both (club teams and NT managers) but i'm not quite sure about it's impact..... as far as i'm concerned, it doesn't matter to me, i've invested in club facilities already, just with a couple of club activities my balance keeps clear, so i don't have a problem with it.

In the other hand, you must consider current "World Cup - Group Stage" as a "real" world cup qualifying (in reality, WC Qualifying takes place during season, not in the offseason), because the real competition will begin when leagues matches over, 32 teams (2 from each group) will fight for the title... maybe those days will be great to test other manager's patience about weeks without income, don't you think? If that scheme is not welcome..... well, we'll have some serious trouble with your idea. I repeat, i like it and i don't have any trouble with it.

About increasing squad's size, i'd like to say one more thing: free players are an easy solution to deal with stamina problems, but there's others: having a solid academy and good training facilities too you can find some anwers too! If people'd work in every aspect of the game (not just buying quality players) you'd have a great chance to give them some first team matches, it's always better have some solutions at hand, i'm not the type of person that only complain when things doesn't fit with my scheme.... i believe it's time people start to analyse how things work, and then, and then begin to act accordingly, we cannot being complaining everytime something we don't like, becuase a lot of times things have a solution, but we're lazy to find them.

Ologga · « **Reply #9 on:** October 30, 2011, 05:25:13 AM »

Quote from: CarlosT on October 30, 2011, 12:26:29 AM

Have you considered increase your squad's size? Even in real life, squads with few players can't stand the pace, they need to have more players as backup.

Free players were a great chance, if people'd hire them you wouldn't have problems.

this subject was spoken some days ago, our money as yours, was in facilities improvement, then it was imposible to buy frees, anyway I have a squad of 40 players, but I prefer to use the best players in each match, because I pay to my players, no the national teams, and if they used my players they arrived tired to saturday matches.

It's only a opinion, thanks.

Kr10s · « **Reply #10 on:** October 30, 2011, 11:48:44 AM »

Quote from: Ologga on October 30, 2011, 05:25:13 AM

this subject was spoken some days ago, our money as yours, was in facilities improvement, then it was imposible to buy frees, anyway I have a squad of 40 players, but I prefer to use the best players in each match, because I pay to my players, no the national teams, and if they used my players they arrived tired to saturday matches.

Ologga, if i'd have to play more competitions and i felt my squad size wasn't enough, i wouldn't use all my money in facilities, i'm sorry but i believe you made a mistake there. You're only proving my previous reflection: you didn't see things coming, now they don't fit in your scheme and now complain.....
You say you have 40 players, it's almost 4 squads, can't you do 2 decent teams? Why do you have so many? I understood your "use the best players in each match" but again, IT'S IMPOSSIBLE, EVEN IN REAL LIFE, PLAYING ALL THE COMPETITIONS AT 100%, energy used in NT matches is minimum compared to league/cup/wcl, you can't reduce your problem to NT matches because your problem is another.

Let's say you've an international player, his energy is 100%, you're in wednesday:

Wed: He plays with your club, loses 10 energy points (enery at 90%)
He recover energy in training (start thursday at 93%)
Thur: He plays WCL, loses 4 energy points (energy at 89%)
He recover energy in training (start friday at 92%)
Fri: He plays NT match (energy at 90%)
He recover energy in training (start saturday at 93%)
Sat: He plays league match (energy at 83%)
He recover energy in training (start sunday at 86%)
Sun: He recover energy in training (start monday at 89%)
Mon: He recover energy in training (start tuesday at 92%)
Tue: He recover energy in training (start wednesday at 95%)

Let's say you've another player, he's not a NT member, his energy is 100%, you're in wednesday:

Wed: He plays with your club, loses 10 energy points (enery at 90%)
He recover energy in training (start thursday at 93%)
Thur: He plays WCL, loses 4 energy points (energy at 89%)
He recover energy in training (start friday at 92%)
Fri: He recover energy in training (start saturday at 95%)
Sat: He plays league match, loses 10 energy points (energy at 85%)
He recover energy in training (start sunday at 88%)
Sun: He recover energy in training (start monday at 91%)
Mon: He recover energy in training (start tuesday at 94%)
Tue: He recover energy in training (start wednesday at 97%)

EVEN WITHOUT NT MATCHES, YOU CAN'T STAND THE PACE ALL THE SEASON

In other words, you're complaining because your players have 2 energy points missing in a week, even if you have 7 international players in your squad, making 1 recovery activities per day you can compensate all the damage (and you've 160 energy points left per day, if you want to do some souvenir booth) and still, your squad's size wouldn't be enough to fight the whole season.....

Will you tell me you lose making money in club activities? You've income in WCL matches, don't complain.
Will you tell me you can't play cup matches with the same squad? A normal club can't make it in 2 rounds, energy recovered is not enough to sustain a squad 2 weeks.
Will you tell me your NT manager use you players even if they're less than 92%..... i'm sorry, but your countrymen choosed a bad manager then.

And again i tell you..... why do you have 40 players if you can't fight 2 competitions? If you'd have 15 players it would be the same then, sell all useless players, then, save some wage expenses and improve facilities!

Ologga, i'm afraid you did things wrong, as i said before, our NT manager (and Top Division champion) bought 9 free players (it was 6 when i said that previously), he didn't upgraded his academy yet (even if he wants to) and will need 2 weeks more to get enough money, it might sound harsh, but he were far smarter than you.... now he's got 2 squads, 1 to fight league matches and 1 to fight WCL, without energy problems.
Why you didn't the same? Why the rush improving facilities?

In the other hand you say "I pay to my players, no the national teams".... men, it's a problem even in real life, european clubs fight with south american's FA all the time because of that, but there's one difference: in real life, an european club don't gain absolutely nothing if a player goes to his NT. In GKO, you player improves faster and it's only in exchange of 2 energy points, an insignificant number that can be recovered with club activities.

I'm sorry Ologga, but i'm not with you, you shouldn't blame NT managers for your mistakes.

Ologga · « **Reply #11 on:** October 30, 2011, 12:37:12 PM »

Quote from: CarlosT on October 30, 2011, 11:48:44 AM

Quote from: Ologga on October 30, 2011, 05:25:13 AM
this subject was spoken some days ago, our money as yours, was in facilities improvement, then it was imposible to buy frees, anyway I have a squad of 40 players, but I prefer to use the best players in each match, because I pay to my players, no the national teams, and if they used my players they arrived tired to saturday matches.

Ologga, if i'd have to play more competitions and i felt my squad size wasn't enough, i wouldn't use all my money in facilities, i'm sorry but i believe you made a mistake there. You're only proving my previous reflection: you didn't see things coming, now they don't fit in your scheme and now complain.....
You say you have 40 players, it's almost 4 squads, can't you do 2 decent teams? Why do you have so many? I understood your "use the best players in each match" but again, IT'S IMPOSSIBLE, EVEN IN REAL LIFE, PLAYING ALL THE COMPETITIONS AT 100%, energy used in NT matches is minimum compared to league/cup/wcl, you can't reduce your problem to NT matches because your problem is another.

Let's say you've an international player, his energy is 100%, you're in wednesday:

Wed: He plays with your club, loses 10 energy points (enery at 90%)
He recover energy in training (start thursday at 93%)
Thur: He plays WCL, loses 4 energy points (energy at 89%)
He recover energy in training (start friday at 92%)
Fri: He plays NT match (energy at 90%)
He recover energy in training (start saturday at 93%)
Sat: He plays league match (energy at 83%)
He recover energy in training (start sunday at 86%)
Sun: He recover energy in training (start monday at 89%)
Mon: He recover energy in training (start tuesday at 92%)
Tue: He recover energy in training (start wednesday at 95%)

Let's say you've another player, he's not a NT member, his energy is 100%, you're in wednesday:

Wed: He plays with your club, loses 10 energy points (enery at 90%)
He recover energy in training (start thursday at 93%)
Thur: He plays WCL, loses 4 energy points (energy at 89%)
He recover energy in training (start friday at 92%)
Fri: He recover energy in training (start saturday at 95%)
Sat: He plays league match, loses 10 energy points (energy at 85%)
He recover energy in training (start sunday at 88%)
Sun: He recover energy in training (start monday at 91%)
Mon: He recover energy in training (start tuesday at 94%)
Tue: He recover energy in training (start wednesday at 97%)

EVEN WITHOUT NT MATCHES, YOU CAN'T STAND THE PACE ALL THE SEASON

In other words, you're complaining because your players have 2 energy points missing in a week, even if you have 7 international players in your squad, making 1 recovery activities per day you can compensate all the damage (and you've 160 energy points left per day, if you want to do some souvenir booth) and still, your squad's size wouldn't be enough to fight the whole season.....

Will you tell me you lose making money in club activities? You've income in WCL matches, don't complain.
Will you tell me you can't play cup matches with the same squad? A normal club can't make it in 2 rounds, energy recovered is not enough to sustain a squad 2 weeks.
Will you tell me your NT manager use you players even if they're less than 92%..... i'm sorry, but your countrymen choosed a bad manager then.

And again i tell you..... why do you have 40 players if you can't fight 2 competitions? If you'd have 15 players it would be the same then, sell all useless players, then, save some wage expenses and improve facilities!

Ologga, i'm afraid you did things wrong, as i said before, our NT manager (and Top Division champion) bought 9 free players (it was 6 when i said that previously), he didn't upgraded his academy yet (even if he wants to) and will need 2 weeks more to get enough money, it might sound harsh, but he were far smarter than you.... now he's got 2 squads, 1 to fight league matches and 1 to fight WCL, without energy problems.
Why you didn't the same? Why the rush improving facilities?

In the other hand you say "I pay to my players, no the national teams".... men, it's a problem even in real life, european clubs fight with south american's FA all the time because of that, but there's one difference: in real life, an european club don't gain absolutely nothing if a player goes to his NT. In GKO, you player improves faster and it's only in exchange of 2 energy points, an insignificant number that can be recovered with club activities.

I'm sorry Ologga, but i'm not with you, you shouldn't blame NT managers for your mistakes.

I respect your opinion, but the only thing I say is that with NT matches, the players arrive tired to saturday matches and as I have said, to have International players should be an advantage not a problem, I am not speaking of mistakes, I have proposed to make a break for play national teams world cup or clasifications for not interfere in clubs competitions, no more, thanks.

Anyway, I will make you a little question that I don't understand:

a player who starts a match at 100%, has the same performance that other one who starts at 97%?, when works the penalty of have less than 92% condition?, when the player starts de match under 92% or when the player gets that 92% during the match?.

Kr10s · « **Reply #12 on:** October 30, 2011, 12:44:47 PM »

Quote from: Ologga on October 30, 2011, 12:37:12 PM

Anyway, I will make you a little question that I don't understand:

a player who starts a match at 100%, has the same performance that other one who starts at 97%?, when works the penalty of have less than 92% condition?, when the player starts de match under 92% or when the player gets that 92% during the match?.

Excatly, your player can be at 93% and his performance will be the same than 100%, in other words the problem is not that big. You just have to be sure your player is at least 92% before a match and you won't have any trouble. Can you understand my point now? The damage made by NT matches is minimum, your main problem is that, even those players that doesn't belong to an NT team, eventually will need to be recovered with club activities if you want to use them in all matches, to avoid that, you should use some subs eventually or you should've bought extra quality players as backup.

Zinkar · « **Reply #13 on:** October 30, 2011, 12:56:29 PM »

a strange topic for two units of energy. If you like it is said that a player starts to play below his abilities if he has below 94.

I hope that you will not mind that I got into your conversation. "Вставлю 5 копеек"(Russian expression). I do not see a problem in that what would have been difficult to create a second structure inferior to the first, but able to earn points in the league. After all, players can type 27 + years, that cost a lot but not able to win trophies - so this will proryadit market transfers. And sometimes necessary to give chance to young!

Kr10s · « **Reply #14 on:** October 30, 2011, 01:00:12 PM »

Quote from: Zinkar on October 30, 2011, 12:56:29 PM

I do not see a problem in that what would have been difficult to create a second structure inferior to the first, but able to earn points in the league. After all, players can type 27 + years, that cost a lot but not able to win trophies - so this will proryadit market transfers. And sometimes necessary to give chance to young!

See Ologga? Interesting words from a manager that already played a WCL last season (so, he's far more qualified than me or you in this subject), he saw things coming and found some backup players. That's what you should've done.

Ologga · « **Reply #15 on:** October 30, 2011, 10:13:50 PM »

Quote from: CarlosT on October 30, 2011, 12:44:47 PM

Quote from: Ologga on October 30, 2011, 12:37:12 PM
Anyway, I will make you a little question that I don't understand:

a player who starts a match at 100%, has the same performance that other one who starts at 97%?, when works the penalty of have less than 92% condition?, when the player starts de match under 92% or when the player gets that 92% during the match?.

Excatly, your player can be at 93% and his performance will be the same than 100%, in other words the problem is not that big. You just have to be sure your player is at least 92% before a match and you won't have any trouble. Can you understand my point now? The damage made by NT matches is minimum, your main problem is that, even those players that doesn't belong to an NT team, eventually will need to be recovered with club activities if you want to use them in all matches, to avoid that, you should use some subs eventually or you should've bought extra quality players as backup.

Ouhh! I thought that if the player doesn't have 100% he has lower performance in the game, then, the problem is smaller than I thought. Thank you so much for your help in this subject.