Polish WCC Biscuit

[marctiello]

Ok guys, i understand that Poland wanted both its teams in next phase of WCC (from Group B), but looking at the tactics of this last match:

http://www.gokickoff.com/team_match_detail.php?match_id=9976963

It was 100% expectable (and understandable), but even so, don't you think that it is a little bit unfair for the 3rd team in the group?

Anyway, good luck!
Marco

[top level]

what do you expect, when they put 2 or 3 teams from the same country in the same group?! of course they chose the best scenario for their teams and their country. admin should change the draw system, we should have all the teams listed according to the points they earned in the past seasons in WCC and 2 favorites and 2 teams from the same country should never be in the same group. but that means that admin should do some work and we all know what that is: mission impossible.

so we'll just have to live with it.

[storm123]

this guy , top level , also fixed his match against florinsteua in Group A of WCC. those two guys fixed another matches in last season of Romanian,s Cup .


Shame on you , guys !

[Drahcir]

You could try to report them. In my opinion this is cheating inn one way and should be punished with perhaps a fine, unfortunatly the gamemasters are probably abscent and nothing will happening...

[Golex]

Ok guys, i understand that Poland wanted both its teams in next phase of WCC (from Group B), but looking at the tactics of this last match:

http://www.gokickoff.com/team_match_detail.php?match_id=9976963

Unfair and irregular situations, it is to sanction and elimination of both teams, unfortunately admin will not respond as always
 

[Kr10s]

Well, i must say that i saw this inmediately after i knew wich team would be my oponent next round. All i can say is that i never, ever played mots or hard tackling in a WCC game before, and i am seriously considering to do an exception and using both at the same time. I won't waste my time writing to a gamemaster that needs more than a month to do something about a report, we are on our own guys.

What analysis should we do about this? No players set to attack, NOT A SINGLE MISSED SHOT IN THE WHOLE GAME (all players were instructed to pass in the box, for sure). If this is not match fixing, what the f*ck is a match fixed?

Unfair and irregular situations, it is to sanction and elimination of both teams, unfortunately admin will not respond as always
 

Don't you worry guys, just keep buying token each season to pull great extra youth and heal your players, admin have no need to pay attention to the game if money flows on its own, even if he ignores us 

We (as users/customers) have the game we deserve i believe.... 

[Ruta]

I understand your anger but I have to mention that a draw was the best result for both team. There is not a situation that one team help another by using youth or reserves or bad tactics.  If any of this teams lost it would be out of WCC.

Now then think if you would take a risk to loose when set a bus  is an easiest way ! So this match was strange but two teams did the best thing for them. Why they should think about others first then themselves ?

Carlos, I don't know if they arranged not to shoot but pass (I expect they did) ,but is same way like to arrange not to use MOTS or use easy tackling, isn't it? Still is the best way for both teams.

In general Top Level say right words. There shouldn't be two teams from same country or user on group stage. It is the simpliest way to avoid bad situations. But we both know that nothing will change

[Kr10s]

Ruta, the difference between agreeing to not use MotS and agreeing not to shoot is HUGE. You can agree to not use MotS looking for a fair and balanced match and still play for win, in that match nobody even tried to do a miserable long shoot (that would be obvious, if you don't want to use many people forward), i don't see 2 teams agreeing to play fairly, i see 2 teams agreeing a match result useful for both and their comunity.

Now, i understand how you feel, you know that i once got a fantastic player from one of those teams and he has my gratitude for that, but that doesn't change the fact that this is not right and this is not legal. If i turn my sight and ignore the situatiom i wouldn't be different than a gamemaster who doesn't ban a cheater, just because he spend money in the game, don't you think?

EDIT: And i forgot, i would expect a bad tactic coming from somebody playing in a weak league, not from somebody coming from a top ranked league, also, i would expect subs from somebody who have nothing to lose or doesn't care the result, not from somebody who need points to go though, sorry but i don't bite this....

[Drahcir]

Agreeing not to use mots is also match fixing inn my opinion and every honest player should refrain from it. Sadly People are idiots, as proven by these two.

[Ruta]

Always as I speak about MOTS or other difficult situation I say that if everyone think about himself first is ok.  Here we have this situation. I agree that from others sights is not fair. Sadly this games is not fair at all and this issue is a really minor problem.

PS. I can imagine that two teams from different countries can do same way, can't you? The main fact is that both teams got what they want.

PS. in real life there were same situations. When a draw is good for both teams this is the way. Others can avoid it just by win their matches and get enough points to stay safe.

Agreeing not to use mots is also match fixing inn my opinion and every honest player should refrain from it. Sadly People are idiots, as proven by these two.

  I am on WCC knockout stage since a lot of seasons so I can say that to arrange not to use MOTS is so common like snow on Arctic,lol It is rather a rule then accident.

[marctiello]

I am on the line of Top Level: game developers should avoid certains situations like two teams from the same league in the same group. And i agree with Carlos...untill we pay, admin won't change nothing since his objective is earn money not game improvement. Ruta, with big surprise, this ti.e i cannot agree with you. Of course it was the result which permitted both teams to go to next phase. Indeed i said that i expected it and i understand it. BUT it is match fixing, no way to try to call it in another way. I respect polishmanagers. If you are n.1 in the ranking it is for some reason....but in this case i was quite decepcioned by the form of fixing the draw. Fair play is another thing. I don't like the way you end your post: so, i have to win all my matches in order to stay safe, because we are all unfair managers or what?? I am sorry my friend but in a fair and honest context, only your skills and lucky factor rule, not manager agreements in order to fix the result you want.

[Drahcir]

I have no illusions such arrangements will disappear. It is upto every player to choose his way of gameplay, I like to think of mine as an honourable one and thus I do not cheat, ever.

[Ruta]

Marctiello, I said it before , this is unfair from your point but very fair from their points. I understand that you feel bad and you have rights . But this is game and always someone has to loose. Here it is more complicated that a draw was bad for you and good for both of them. I understand that thay didn't want to hurt each other, too . And I know that this is main problem for everyone.

I don't know what I would do if a draw give me promotion and defeat make me out. What would do you? My 1st think would be about defense, this is for sure.

 I think that we can both agree that GKO make this problems by their own. Here we have rather obviuos situations cause both teams are form same country and users know each other very well.

I have no illusions such arrangements will disappear. It is upto every player to choose his way of gameplay, I like to think of mine as an honourable one and thus I do not cheat, ever.

Drahcir, for me MOTS is very dishonourable. So tell me , have you ever used a MOTS? I know this is an option is this game but still. And I know that when others did it against you there is a feeling to do the same.
Again we back to GKO at all, they make unfair game so people have to take  ethical dilemmas I used MOTS several times, mostle when opponent did it too. ONce I won National Cup by MOTS. And I didn't celebrate it. Even I know that my rival made a final by MOTSes.

[Drifter]

  I'm not sure I agree that match fixing is cheating. It is distasteful and certainly doesn't give a fair representation of the competition, but I don't think I have read anywhere in the rules that says you can't put out any players in any formation and tactical setup that they want. True, some people do fix matches so that the results suit them, but this also happens in real leagues around the world. In the champions league, European Cup and many other venues where a draw is beneficial, teams do play negatively and work to insure a draw.  I'm sure it is not fun for some users but it's the same as mots in my opinion. Its an option in the game that some may not like. I don't support match fixing, but it is what it is and complaining about it doesn't really do much to change it.

[Kr10s]

To me,  agreeing not to play mots is unfair only if you save your mots and eventually use it later in the same competition, against somebody who needed to use them earlier, there i would be getting an "advantage" i got in previous rounds. As i said earlier, i never used MotS in a WCC game before, so, do you guys think i cheated, just because i won many matches and the competition using my own strenght only? How curious point of view!

And Drifter, i agree with you that each manager has the right to use the squad he might think is better for his team, but giving up on trying to shoot, even from long range? I have been using subs/B squad in the last 3 seasons, that doesn't mean i did something to manipulate the competition, you can ask any manager i met before if i made things easy to any of them... I could be going further, saying that this season i played with subs in the 7 group stage matches and i made it through (7 matches played, 7 matches won, no goals conceeded), you can avoid using your better squad and still do something looking for a win. That is completely different.

But as Ruta said, GKO made his own problems... Some people might think that playing more than one account is right, but if you make then work together (as main/farm teams) i don't consider it as honorable or fair.... And if you ever meet 2 teams from same manager in WCC group stage (as i did, sometime ago) you might understand how bad we are, in the meantime, keep paying for all the ingame advantage you want, as i said earlier, Wcc is only a big rat nest, a competition where many managers shows the worst they have to offer....

[Brian Clough]

Teams from the same nation must not be placed in the same group. If this cannot be averted, then at least they must never face each other in the final match of the round!

This is basically a GKO version of the Disgrace of Gijon and, like then, neither team should be punished. Instead, the game desperately needs reforms in the same way the 1982 World Cup game led to changes in the group stage format.

Unfortunately it is unlikely game developers will take action at this point, but then, this also has a precedent in the real world. Most observers felt Argentina's 6-0 win over Peru in the 1978 World Cup involved match fixing, but no action was taken by FIFA until after the 1982 incident....

[chuncho_]

according to the rules, both teams should be punished
It is absolutely ridiculous and share with k, which in wcl everything that may appear immoral appears
mots, hard tickets, match fixing, etc.
surely many still cheating, because the administrator does not appear, which is the same as giving freedom to cheating

[Drifter]

  If this game was fair, we would all have the same players with the same stats. If this game was fair, we would all get the same payouts at the end of a league season. If this game was fair, users would not be able to have one or two or three accounts just because they paid. If this game was fair, premium wouldn't be a factor and match of the season would not exist.

My point is that this game is not fair. I don't like it but that is life sometimes. Life isn't fair either. You must do what you can in the environment that is set before you. Of course there are people cheating. Even if admin was vigiliant, there would still be those trying to find any way forward, even by illegal means.

It's ugly and distasteful but so are so many other things in this game. But we all love the game so we just have to deal with it or find your own way to punish teams you don't like.

[elcura]

Do you gko-players watch real football? WC or Champions League? Every single year there are many games like this, when 1st and 2nd team are playing for a draw. In Euro 2004 Sweden vs Denmark they screwed up Italy playing for a draw 2-2. Watch champions league last fixture of group stage there is plenty of it.
Im not a fan of that but its part of game.

And about fixing game, what are you talking about? Both teams want to go next round and both teams needed at least draw so they did play for a draw, they didnt use youth team players to let another team win, its in the range of rules, is it fair to the 3rd, i dont think so but they are by the book.

[Brian Clough]

according to the rules, both teams should be punished
It is absolutely ridiculous and share with k, which in wcl everything that may appear immoral appears
mots, hard tickets, match fixing, etc.
surely many still cheating, because the administrator does not appear, which is the same as giving freedom to cheating

I agree, but we must concede that it is impossible to prove. Both managers could say "I just needed a point, so I parked the bus."

My point is that this game is not fair. I don't like it but that is life sometimes. Life isn't fair either. You must do what you can in the environment that is set before you. Of course there are people cheating. Even if admin was vigiliant, there would still be those trying to find any way forward, even by illegal means.

It's ugly and distasteful but so are so many other things in this game. But we all love the game so we just have to deal with it or find your own way to punish teams you don't like.

Really well put. It is more important to have the fairest possible competition format. It is simply unacceptable that clubs from the same nation are placed in the same WCL group. 

[JohnTerry]

Few seasons ago (season 11), here in GKO there was 3 (!?!) teams from Serbia in SAME qualification WCL group: Dorcol, Kikinda and Mladi Rudar.

Check my team fixtures in season 11 >>> http://www.gokickoff.com/team_overviews.php

Enough said...

[Kr10s]

according to the rules, both teams should be punished
It is absolutely ridiculous and share with k, which in wcl everything that may appear immoral appears
mots, hard tickets, match fixing, etc.
surely many still cheating, because the administrator does not appear, which is the same as giving freedom to cheating

I agree, but we must concede that it is impossible to prove. Both managers could say "I just needed a point, so I parked the bus."

The bus parked is out of discussion to me, it might be  reasonable, the suspicious stuff comes from other things.... There were 7 gameplay situations and 6 of them ended in pases cut, none of us can see individual orders (i am sure that GM can) but i don't see any intention to do something more than finish leveled....

Did someone scouted the player who threw the only corner kick in the game: my maxed scout says he is a 2/5/1 player and his setpiece ability is 1 and and his crossing ability is 10. I wonder if that player will take corner kicks in upcoming games too 

[marctiello]

No doubt about it. If they don't like the expression "Match Fixing" let's call "Not Aggression Pact". Anyway, no problem with that, here in Portuguese league we are happy with the great performance of our 3rd classified team: next time we will be luckier and no biscuit on our way  in WCC

[Andy]

Do you gko-players watch real football? WC or Champions League? Every single year there are many games like this, when 1st and 2nd team are playing for a draw. In Euro 2004 Sweden vs Denmark they screwed up Italy playing for a draw 2-2. Watch champions league last fixture of group stage there is plenty of it.
Im not a fan of that but its part of game.

 I hear you, mate. I think Brian summed it up best when he qouted the Austria V West Germany game at the WC in Spain. Nearly everyone understands why they did what they did but their sin is not what they did but in making it so obvious. As you say it happens in real life all the time but anytime it becomes obvious like Austria v West Germany, or every now and then a manager is naieve enough to hint at what he is doing, then all hell breaks loose!

But to everyone calling for a ban: please take my word, these managers are good guys, I am 100% sure they are honest managers. There is a line and I agree they have stepped over it but I think the condemnation they have received will be surprising for them but enough for them not to do it again. Thats enough in my books.

BTW the biggest tradegy of all this IMO is that is has cast a sour outlook on Polands great achievements: 4 teams through the WC knockouts and Ruta Best and Dynamit Warszawa have risen to the top of the world rankings. The Polish community are one the strongest and best natured in the world, we dont want to see a repeat of this game but all the same: good luck and congratulations to them.

[Andy]

So both teams were unceremoniously dumped out of the competition - rough justice? Well, I think its a shame because mob justice is no justice

And what has it achieved? I am sure Mariuz and Saramizobal were already proud of their achievement of making it past the group stage they would had no aspirations to win the cup. Their victors both had outside chance of going all the way until these games and now with no MOTS they have no chance. what is the point?

And so the topic should change once more to MOTS. I didnt used to mind them so much but they are so open to abuse:- they must go!

Everyone has enjoyed moralising in this topic so here are my guidelines to using MOTS:

Only use them to help your team
Never, use them to hurt a fellow GKO player just because you dont like them or are fed up with them winning
Never, use them to help a 3rd team
Making a no Mots pact is ok in my book but be consistent: dont say yes to one manager and no to another and do not try to bully a manager into accepting one if he doesnt want it.