Author Topic: GKO engine 3.0 - Analysis  (Read 5230 times)

Brian Clough

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GKO engine 3.0 - Analysis
« on: December 26, 2013, 02:11:25 AM »
Ok check this out, guys. What has actually happened is that the tactical influencesum of tactics is the cumulative sum of weighted tactics. In game engine 2.0 all were either 100% or 0%. New engine uses 100%, 80% and 50%

- specialization factor is the ratio of position's sum of tactics with that of the M line, presumably the most well-rounded players. A given number of skill points can be more effectively distsributed among a smaller number of tactical categores. The assumption is that the M line is the most well-rounded (affecting overall tactics the most) as it was in the previous engine.

-Change in tactical influence represents the factor by which a position's overall tactical influence has changed. 100% means no change, 200% means a player in this position has twice as much impact on ovarall tactics as in previous engine. <100% means the tactical influence of a player in this position has decreased.

Interesting that DC is the biggest; nobody has mentioned it really. The DC was the position most capable of tactical specialization (just marking and opponent roaming) and now its overall tactical influence has doubled!

Also AMLR need to be even more well-rounded players than the M line indicates this was a mistake by programmers. Surely forward wings won't have such a strong effect on press tactics....

Anyway this is a huge change; it's almost as if we have a new game entirely and the biggest losers are inevitably some of the biggest clubs who have been training the first round of high LA players around a game architecture that has been radically changed. Who, then are the winners? The winners are bot teams (their 4-4-2 has become much strengthened) and newly emerging top clubs who now find themsleves on a much more level playing field with even the most powerful teams.

If this system were to be postponed for a season (as some have suggested) it would greatly benefit the biggest, wealthiest clubs, who would be able to use their might to prepare for the change much faster than smaller clubs. So...I say let's keep the new system and see how it plays out. I have no expectations for this season tbh.


Having said that, I still feel very strongly that this system is a great first step but it needs to be more dynamic, with adjustments made to relevant tactical weights based on tactical selections, specifically "strategy" (for all players), "defensive line" (for centre backs and fullbacks), and player setting (more attack/more defend/default). These are tactical calculations, after all, and should depend on them!

Something like this, for example:


Remember, these adjustments are not made to the player tactical scores themselves, but to the amount of weight each receives in the team tactics calculations. Ranges presented express extremes. For example, a DC could have as low as a 0% weight for many attacking tactics (OZM, OPM, etc.) but only when using (a) contain strategy, (b) very deep defensive line, and (c) more defend individual instructions (player setting). Using push up with an attacking strategy would actually increase the existing weight. And yes, it is equally acceptable to use a weight that is >1 (>100%) as it is to use one that is < 1.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2013, 03:59:20 AM by Brian Clough »
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Kr10s

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Re: GKO engine 3.0 - Analysis
« Reply #1 on: December 26, 2013, 02:32:52 AM »
Interesting calculations, indeed, i am not sure if developers are willing to change the engine based on so many factors (such as defensie line position and all that stuff), still, there's one thing in current engine that i think it should be changed.

Surely forward wings won't have such a strong effect on press tactics....

Actually, i think that the F line should have full strenght in "Press More" tactic (right now, only FR/FL does) and the AM line should have full strengt in "Stand off more" tactic.

EDIT: Another thing, with this new engine, new tactical options are required urgently...

I have been thinking, what would happen if my oponent fills the D and the DM line alone? His marking ability should be sky high (10 marking skills summed at 1 value) and his ability to break my defense should be insignificant (10 "O" levels should be summed at 0.5 value), it would be impossible to break trough that defense and i wouldn't need many people behind, in other words, from now on, changing a formation during a match becomes into a must have! I wonder if developers are working on it, because we will really need it.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2013, 02:44:37 AM by CarlosT »
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Red

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Re: GKO engine 3.0 - Analysis
« Reply #2 on: December 26, 2013, 02:59:24 AM »
The way how Brian think is my dream  8)  8)  8)
Thats the way how ultimate tactical challange should go,of course there is many points to discuss but it is the best way.
In current engine for sure defenders are to often in attacking zone and conclusion is only one: influence of each zone to specific tactic is not in good balance.Im agree that cumulative calculation is not good too (interesting when some body placed 8 great defenders in green marking zone).
I will buy young players with PR 5 and higher,send me your offer.

Ruta

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Re: GKO engine 3.0 - Analysis
« Reply #3 on: December 26, 2013, 08:08:19 AM »
Brian, we don't know if there is something similar to your sugestion in present engine.

But for sure the biggest fail of new engine is broken AM line. So solutions is easy. If AM players would be same strong in attack factors like DM line in defensive it be enough. In another words AM line should contribute in attack like forward. DM line contribute in defense like defenders.

Now I have to play mine wingers as side forwards.
Some people think that looks weird and I must agree with them ,ha ha ha
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Re: GKO engine 3.0 - Analysis
« Reply #4 on: December 26, 2013, 12:14:45 PM »
i do not think so...in fact, i think DC is the Weakest in 3.0...

chuncho_

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Re: GKO engine 3.0 - Analysis
« Reply #5 on: December 26, 2013, 12:41:01 PM »
's funny , I do not fear no changes to these grown vecez a game and give us opportunities to continue studying and drawing useful conclusions
I think it brian- route and carlos, have explained thoroughly detallesde such changes and their great maid , I think as always, thank you internalized many are several aspects of this game

this game is very complicated or more than most , is why many are here
that's why it took us quite in study and especially to form a team for this, as we delay 3-4 seasons ?

and now another game appears , have changed the general aspects of the game, this is not makeup, it's not an improvement , make no mistake .... this is a new game

many or all , including myself were obsolete
there are positions that no longer have a real weight, change the way they attack , how to defend, how to approach the whole strategy

and only benefits alos boots or trainers who are not involved in this game and leave the default 442 training , I mean this game is the leveling down

by doing this?

to try to make the game simpler ?
for more people to go to this game?
finally to make more money resembling popular and simple games ?

is a waste of time, I do not think my participation to be as effusive as before
as this is a great insult to all those who actively participate in this game

as decisive change is made correctly as in all games or in daily life ...... slowly, quietly

to take appropriate action

I will not do that now, though I'm very upset, I do not rule this game let
or freeze it for a while


Now if you want to give more importance to some positions, eliminating the possibilities for other

is not possible with the economy in this game have dr-dl-dml-dmr

to 4 mc, different characteristics

the ml and mr appear aml and amr-removed, or now MUST have these characteristics fc

have one or two fc is ridiculous

give more value to some different tactics players agree is impossible
we can not have 20 to 25 salary 10000

finally this game instead of habrirse to new possibilities, closed in few
« Last Edit: December 26, 2013, 12:49:06 PM by chuncho_ »

chefo

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Re: GKO engine 3.0 - Analysis
« Reply #6 on: December 26, 2013, 01:36:26 PM »
So in the end was the only thing we were informed about even implemented?
Referring to the "Teamwork" change or is it so insignificant compared to the rest we can't even tell as of yet  :P

Kr10s

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Re: GKO engine 3.0 - Analysis
« Reply #7 on: December 26, 2013, 01:54:01 PM »
So in the end was the only thing we were informed about even implemented?
Referring to the "Teamwork" change or is it so insignificant compared to the rest we can't even tell as of yet  :P

Nope, teamwork DOES affect team tactics (players changed their tactical levels at different rates eachother, tw seems the reason behind of it), but the change is insignificant compared with the effect that swithching between average for cumulative levels does.

Teamwork is not the real problem now, player's distribution is.
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chefo

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Re: GKO engine 3.0 - Analysis
« Reply #8 on: December 26, 2013, 02:09:41 PM »
Thought that'd be the case.
Anyway after clearing some things out I must say the idea behind the new engine is not so bad.
Of course some values might need to be tweaked a bit such as the effect of the AM line which turned upside down but overall such fresh crucial game changes are indeed necessary as the game progresses not only to add more challenges for everybody but of course give newer clubs opportunity to catch up and keep being interested in the game.
Either way managers that did good so far won't have that much trouble to adapt their teams even if sacrificing a season or two.

marius.82

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Re: GKO engine 3.0 - Analysis
« Reply #9 on: December 26, 2013, 02:19:07 PM »
Let's try something ! nobody buy nothing(tokens,premium etc.) for one year, and maybe they will start listen and respect us ! maybe that way they will let us know the changes enough time before they will be implemented !

chefo

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Re: GKO engine 3.0 - Analysis
« Reply #10 on: December 26, 2013, 02:27:27 PM »
Let's try something ! nobody buy nothing(tokens,premium etc.) for one year, and maybe they will start listen and respect us ! maybe that way they will let us know the changes enough time before they will be implemented !

I've been spreading that idea for a while now, too bad a lot of people are blinded by the advantages they rather obtain and don't look at the whole situation. I really can't understand what staff are thinking, forum is not a factor in their decisions for some time now so most of the things we're discussing here won't reach the people that can do something about it. This game can really be one of a kind all tho at first sight its a (or at least it was) a mixture of a few other popular managers but it's slowly making its own path.

Kr10s

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Re: GKO engine 3.0 - Analysis
« Reply #11 on: December 26, 2013, 02:34:03 PM »
Yes chefo, despite i still want to see more matches to have more impressions avout some things (MR, MC and ML seems to have boosted performances now, and i am not only talking about tactical levels) i agree with you that the engine might be a step forward.

However, we should have more info about it and tactical orders MUST have an impact in team orders (playing attacking strategies should improve ability to break any marking and defending formations should inprove marking ability).

And the must important thing: formations MUST be dynamics, we must have the chance to change our tactics in the run, i mean that if i am leading, i should have the chance to remove an attacker and add a player in a defensive line, and if i need a better result, i should have the chance to take some extra risk in the run, adding players in offensive lines removing a defensive player (4-4-2 to 3-4-3 for example), dynamic formations are needed ASAP
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Brian Clough

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Re: GKO engine 3.0 - Analysis
« Reply #12 on: December 27, 2013, 04:15:23 AM »
Brian, we don't know if there is something similar to your sugestion in present engine.
Exactly; we should at least be told if our tactical selections have an effect on these calculations, or if they mainly affect possession.

But for sure the biggest fail of new engine is broken AM line. So solutions is easy. If AM players would be same strong in attack factors like DM line in defensive it be enough. In another words AM line should contribute in attack like forward. DM line contribute in defense like defenders.

Now I have to play mine wingers as side forwards.
Some people think that looks weird and I must agree with them ,ha ha ha
at least we can push our forward wings up without penalty! The real loser is the specialized AMC who can't be pushed up. Now is the time for a deep lying forward (AKA 2nd striker) position option

If anything I think the M line was weakened too much. Why not keep the 100% weight on all tactics for these players?
« Last Edit: December 27, 2013, 05:06:58 AM by Brian Clough »
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Re: GKO engine 3.0 - Analysis
« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2013, 12:02:09 PM »
My opinion is that the colors in the reports do not mean anything. Each position equally influences on each tactic. This can be seen by calculating. Instead of S to F, put 1-12, so that S is 12 and F is 1.
When you add up the marks of all 10 players for example for UZM and divide that number by 10, you will get an average number that is shown in report. If there are any differences between green, orange and red, the bottom avarage number should not be the average score of all the above numbers. For example, if 5 players with green color has S for Zone marking (or 12), and 5 players with red color for UZM has F (1), average score should not be 6.5 , but higher. In this system, this ME, average is 6.5, so colors dont effect at all.

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Re: GKO engine 3.0 - Analysis
« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2013, 12:21:39 PM »
change the game
Now to be efficient in advanced tactics must have some tremendous players, only some countries will have with the passage of time , increasing the distance even more quality national teams

Argentina with only 100 users could thank them excellent matches dts communities with more than 1000 users , using bold tactics , now no longer will be able to use

 when I see these changes I feel that now is the time of the big differences , where finally teams more than 1,000 users will have a lot of players to use the strategy they want, just like the rich teams that build their teams based on a large budget

Homeownership to get more you need to defend
if you attack with all advanced tactics and to lose a defensive team you can stand to lose if the latter is too bad, since it will have occasions where fortune there also appears

play with the players trained as far -fc- amr- aml , is impossible,
the dmr dml and no longer have the same function and appear as agents of attack rather than defense
play with two fc is an illusion , only the 9-10- etc, level will be able to have options to be part of this new engine

and the more users or top schools have more options such complete players

There will be many, many more distances between equipment before

marctiello

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Re: GKO engine 3.0 - Analysis
« Reply #15 on: December 30, 2013, 06:19:46 PM »
Yes chefo, despite i still want to see more matches to have more impressions avout some things (MR, MC and ML seems to have boosted performances now, and i am not only talking about tactical levels) i agree with you that the engine might be a step forward.

However, we should have more info about it and tactical orders MUST have an impact in team orders (playing attacking strategies should improve ability to break any marking and defending formations should inprove marking ability).

And the must important thing: formations MUST be dynamics, we must have the chance to change our tactics in the run, i mean that if i am leading, i should have the chance to remove an attacker and add a player in a defensive line, and if i need a better result, i should have the chance to take some extra risk in the run, adding players in offensive lines removing a defensive player (4-4-2 to 3-4-3 for example), dynamic formations are needed ASAP
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Re: GKO engine 3.0 - Analysis
« Reply #22 on: February 07, 2024, 10:18:51 PM »
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