Match Engine 3.0 - discussion

[DeGlen]

I normally play with zone marking, and all my players are trained to play like that. In my match yesterday I got 4 red arrows in the post match report. Today I thought I try man marking for once, while my players aren't as good at that as they are in zone marking, but today my marking got 2 blue arrows up in the post match summary.

Something is really wrong with that new match engine..

[海布里之子]

i means,in every games.i check many,what can i see are only 4 red arrows....
i win 5:0 in friendly games,and got 3 and 3 green in press and run...but 4 red in marking ...
is there anything wrong?

[DeGlen]

Every match I have checked, a team that played with zone marking had 4 red arrows.. Today I tried man marking for once while my players aren't trained to play like that, but like that I got 2 bleu arrows..

[海布里之子]

  i am dying...i always play for zone mark...what should i do?

[海布里之子]

Check my game here:http://www.gokickoff.com/team_match_detail.php?match_id=6781887
we have both 4 red arrows in marking。。。
and then we check each other team report.
me: uzm=D+ ozm=C
him:uzm=E ozm=E

So,that mast be wrong...i should not have red arrow in marking...

[firecloud0102]

   there must be something wrong with ZONE marking!!!   please fix this bug ASAP!!

[firecloud0102]

Please Fix it ASAP!!

[RayLei]

Very good example to explain that there is an error in calculating UZM & OZM.
League is coming soon, please do something, Admin!!

[Mr. D]

Please Fix it ASAP!! 

[Mr. D]

  there must be something wrong with ZONE marking!!!   please fix this bug ASAP!!

[Kr10s]

Well, it only proves that this isn't working as it should 

Admin, with all respect, i am not paying a premium account to be your betatester, if you want us to do your beta testing job, give us something in exchange, else, test every single thing you want to change before launching it and avoid us those unnecesary bad times

[chespis]

We need a quickly solution before the first league match start

We always ask for solutions and It never happens

We pay a lot of money in this game.

I think that the BEST SOLUTION is to degrade to the previous version until someone could fix the problem

I'm really tired to pay and never see solutions to the problems, it's a shame

We nned solutions ASAP

[chuncho_]

uff is not whether it is wrong or it is a change in the engine, if so all clubs are equated to the advantage of the new and the teams that take less time, if so be as any slight play or a hattrick

[Derfos]

Same problem here guys, I used to have blue arrows on Zone marking, now I have 4 Red arrows...
This is really ridiculous how can you implant changes without testing, not once but twice in like 2 seasons, there should be some changes in this game but definitely not this kind of changes... everyday the managers of gokickoff discuss and actually write very good analysis of what you could do like Carlos T, Brian Clough or ruta, and you don't even acknowledge them.. These managers actualy put out with all the mistakes you've done and you still don't pay attention to the good critics that could help you grow this game better, for the managers..
You should probably do some changes before the season begins before managers start leaving this game, every season I see the game getting worse , one day i'm not going to log in again, I love this game but enough bullshit is enough

[chespis]

Please admin put the previous engine before the first league match

[chefo]

IMHO rollback all the changes except maybe the Teamwork ability bonus addition on all tactics? Meanwhile this season test everything out and make sure it's fine and release it again next season or don't at all (all tho I'd only gain from such a change atm, I'm not very fond of this engine).
It's going to be a disaster if the league matches begin while this bug is still present.

Of course it won't be too late to clear out all the misunderstandings within a day or two as well, as long as you actually intend to do it..

[xerexy]

This means only 2 things :

1. Admin will put new manual with explanation of new calculations and rules
2. People start leaving this game and it is end of it

simple as it is!

[Ruta]

There is somothins strange with UPM and OPM. As we can see in analisys for DMC UPM is green so it is mean 100% but for AMC in OPM is only yellow so mean only 80%.



 
 It gives that there is easy to press more. when teams are on pretty same level use pres more is always sucsessful
http://www.gokickoff.com/team_match_detail.php?match_id=6779951

INHO it is bad idea cause AMC and DMC should give the same outcome.

Frankly speaking it is easier to defend in new engine then attack !


Add. same is for DML/R and AMR/L , so it makes even hard to attack

[Brian Clough]

This is a good change for midfielders. The old system enabled overly specialised AM and DM players, making players in the M line a tactical liability. Now all midfielders have a more balanced effect on the game.
 
To illustrate, I'll use the example of Marking tactics.
                                       NEW ENGINE                          OLD ENGINE             
                                               n (no. of tactics)
Coefficient          Weight        DM       M         AM          Weight          DM       M        AM 
A                        100%          6         0          4              100%          6        12        6
B                         80%           0        12         4                 0%           6        0          6
C                         50%           6         0          4
Cumulative effect               9       9.6        9.2                              6        12        6

However this has vitually made specialized AM and DM players obsolete. The old system featured a 100% difference in the tactical "influence" of AM or DM positions compared with M positions. The new system has decreased this to under 7%. I guess the AM is the new M and the DM is the new M too.

My biggest complaint is that the system needs to be more dynamic.
The existing weighting system makes sense for a midfielders employing a normal strategy and for players in default mode, but little else. As I stated earlier, these tactics should bring out the skills of more specialized players by increasing or decreasing the weights on tactical coefficients based on tactical settings. This is even more important for forwards when using attacking strategies and defenders when using defensive ones. Weights used for defenders should also depend on the defensive line. Forwards won't be spending 1/3 (50%/[100%+50%]) of their time defending if the team is using attacking strategy and, conversely, defenders won't be spending 1/3 of their time attacking if the team is using a defensive strategy (or even an attacking one with a very deep back line). More attack/more defend selections on individual players should further affect these weights.

It's a good first step, I just wonder why developers thought it would be wise to introduce a system so unresponsive to tactical settings when it's fundamental affect is to reduce differences between positional lines.
 

[Ruta]

However this has vitually made specialized AM and DM players obsolete. The old system featured a 100% difference in the tactical "influence" of AM or DM positions compared with M positions. The new system has decreased this to under 7%. I guess the AM is the new M and the DM is the new M too.

no DM has A effect in all defence but AM has half A and half B in attack . In general DM are more efective now then AM.

add. in old system MC, MR/L was uderrated now it looks like AM are .

add. 2. IMHO AM should contribute in OPM and OSM like forwards, so mean green  ( A)

[Kr10s]

However this has vitually made specialized AM and DM players obsolete. The old system featured a 100% difference in the tactical "influence" of AM or DM positions compared with M positions. The new system has decreased this to under 7%. I guess the AM is the new M and the DM is the new M too.

no DM has A effect in all defence but AM has half A and half B in attack . In general DM are more efective now then AM.

add. in old system MC, MR/L was uderrated now it looks like AM are .

It seems that way, and i think it's completely wrong, MR, MC and ML needed a boost for sure, but why should AMR, AMC and AML suffer the consecuences?
Every position should have his pros and his cons, AM should have a similar effect than DM (in other words, A in attack) we should try to make every position useful for some things and unuseful for others, we shouldn't be killing 6 positions just to make 3 more useful.

By the way: haven't you noticed that M players are performing a lot better than last season? I am not talking about tactics, i talk about general performance, strikers have more problems to score, AM players have trouble to gravitate in playing situations and M players plays a lot better than usual, individual player skills doesn't seem to gravitate same than before, a weak CA3 player can score against stronger defenses without pkaying counter attack or any other tactical move that grants some advantage... i try to understand the new engine, but so many things seems so random that it doesn't have any sense.

[Brian Clough]

However this has vitually made specialized AM and DM players obsolete. The old system featured a 100% difference in the tactical "influence" of AM or DM positions compared with M positions. The new system has decreased this to under 7%. I guess the AM is the new M and the DM is the new M too.

no DM has A effect in all defence but AM has half A and half B in attack . In general DM are more efective now then AM.

add. in old system MC, MR/L was uderrated now it looks like AM are .

add. 2. IMHO AM should contribute in OPM and OSM like forwards, so mean green  ( A)

Sure. DM players can afford to specialize in defensive tactical skills three times more than AM players can specialize in attacking tactics without adversely affecting other tactics. My point is that either of these is still a small fraction of the degree to which these players could specialize in them before
 

[Kr10s]

I still can't understand how does some things happens with the current engine in player performance stuff, but still... i have been trying many different combinations trying to get as better ratings as possible, finally found a few formations that seems to get better results, at least in premium reports:

If you need to defend, you should play one of these:

If you want to play something more offensive, this is probably the best formation you can use:

The reasons are pretty simple:

* FR and FL have a higher weight in UPM and USM tactics than AMR, AMC and AML, still, using players in the AM line isn't reccomended unless you place them in the F line (that also includes AMC as FC, but your pressing level might be reduced).
* DC and DMC are still key players to get high UZM rates, but using many balanced players in the M line grants you excelent results too, using an AMR, AMC or AML now drops your UZM and doesn't increase your OZM that much, in fact, placing an AMC as MC give you very similar results (if the player can play as both, things are even better).

Guys, feel free to try these combinations with your squads and then tell me if i'm wrong.

Now, what are the bigger losers with these changes? We used to think that AMCs were the main losers, but what about FCs??? Only few strikers aside, their OZM tactical rates are mostly low, placing an AMR or an AML as FR or FL is a lot better, their ability to break zonal marking is usually higher, their afs (action finding an oportunity to score) levels are usually similar, they influence in team tactics is higher they and can be used as target man too!
And yes, i know that FCs always had that problem, but there was 6 positions to compensate their low OZM rate, now there are only 2! What can be done to give them their role bsck? I know that there are many strikers with high OZM rates, but they are unbalanced players mostly (low aerial ability, low strenght, only speedy players without ability to hit float croses) i am sure that lots of strikers (90% of total as minimum) have to deal with that trouble now, playing with 2 strikers will surely cause a drastical drop in all team tactics unless you add some OZM only players to play. FR and FL will replace them soon, i am sure of it!

This engine needs to change, if premium tools are right, engine must be rebalanced ASAP, if premium tools are wrong, they must be fixed to give us right info.

For now, i can say that my strikers were my main weapon with the old engine and now they are my main burden, congrats GKO staff, you doesn't stop to prove that things can always be worst!

[Ruta]

If you need to defend, you should play one of these:

think pretty same. line up with all players no higher then M line with 2 FR/L looks most efficient .

If you want to play something more offensive, this is probably the best formation you can use:

The reasons are pretty simple:

* FR and FL have a higher weight in UPM and USM tactics than AMR, AMC and AML, still, using players in the AM line isn't reccomended unless you place them in the F line (that also includes AMC as FC, but your pressing level might be reduced).
* DC and DMC are still key players to get high UZM rates, but using many balanced players in the M line grants you excelent results too, using an AMR, AMC or AML now drops your UZM and doesn't increase your OZM that much, in fact, placing an AMC as MC give you very similar results (if the player can play as both, things are even better).

agree,  but is too little players forward so I think more Fc are is welcome. Where he come from,D line or M line it should depends of oponent line up. Can imagine even 344 line up successful ( with 4 in M line)

Now, what are the bigger losers with these changes? We used to think that AMCs were the main losers, but what about FCs???Only few strikers aside, their OZM tactical rates are mostly low, placing an AMR or an AML as FR or FL is a lot better, their ability to break zonal marking is usually higher, their afs (action finding an oportunity to score) levels are usually similar, they influence in team tactics is higher they and can be used as target man too!
And yes, i know that FCs always had that problem, but there was 6 positions to compensate their low OZM rate, now there are only 2! Could be possible that FCs OZM could be considered with the same weight than MCs? I know that there are many strikers with high OZM rates, but they are unbalanced players mostly (low aerial ability, low strenght, only speedy players without ability to hit float croses) i am sure that more than lots of strikers (90% of total as minimum) have to deal with that trouble now, playing with 2 strikers will surely cause a drastical drop in all team tactics unless you add some OZM only players to play.

Yeah, thay always had that problem so maybe we did  training forwards improperly? Now passing looks same important like finishing!! Frankly speaking it was strange that in old engine forward needed only a few skils to be daedly.
Solution: still think that DM line gives too much to defence , especially when compare how litlle AM line gives to attack

This goes to conclusion , for now before people get well trained FC most of us will play with AMR/L as FR/L.

I dont think so that people can  throw away their FC, especiallly if this not changed :

  from rules :Surroundings affect on player's action as well. Excellent attackers may have a hard time scoring against a packed-in defense. Whereas in contrast, weak attackers may pass through the defense easily if he is outnumbered by the defenders.

[Kr10s]

Hahaha so easy to say those things, your strong side remains same and your weaker side turns stronger now, also because you are developing a striker now, right? You wouldn't be so pleased if every player you developed under clear rules becomes unuseful after an unproperly explained update, so now it's my fault that my strikers lacks passing? You can't be serious...

My team performed greatly in the last seasons, and Argentina have dominated NT level with players i guided or raised myself, what was i wrong?

Maybe the only error i did was to understand ME 2.0 clearly enough to know that some player's weakneses can be compensated with teammates strong points, that's how a team works, we got better results than stronger nations because we understood the engine better and maxed our low LA players to work under those clear rules, so now even strikers should be same than AM players? I never expected those words from you...

I really hate this new engine...