Author Topic: [POLL]Images and names of tyrants and mass murderers in GKO  (Read 5014 times)

Brian Clough

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[POLL]Images and names of tyrants and mass murderers in GKO
« on: December 21, 2012, 04:23:47 AM »
Today I was surprised to find that a manager from Croatia is using a picture of Joseph (Jozef) Stalin as his manager picture :o This monster is responsible for 20-50 MILLION deaths of innocent people, even his predecessors denounced him; the use of his picture, or others like him, in GKO is obscene imo.
 >:(
Images and names of tyrants and mass-murderers like this whose legacy still lives in the memories of the living should not be allowed in GKO.

Rule (1-f) states that "Any act that is considered unlawful, defamatory, obscene, harassing or otherwise objectionable." is prohibited and is subject to termination of a users' account. Using images or likenesses of tyrants and mass murderers of the modern age fits this rule, imo. Additionally, full names of players in GKO should not resemble those of mass-murderers and tyrants of their nationality (see below)

I would suggest that specifically those devils from the modern age be prohibited. While the evilness of those pre-dating the modern era (e.g. Attila the Hun, Maximilien Robespierre, Vlad III of Romania, Ivan IV of Russia, Oliver Crowell, Caligula, etc.) were all tyrants of equivalent stature, the legacies of these men live on only in history books, not the memories of those who walk the Earth today. No one alive today witnessed their atrocities or has heard eyewitness accounts from those who did, so they are irrelevant.

Attached below is a list of over 50 of the worst tyrants and mass-murders of the modern age whose names, images, and likenesses should not be allowed in GKO. Also anyone else on this list of convicted War Criminals should also be prohibited. Names marked with an asterisk (* or **) currently exist as player names with appropriate nationalities in GKO! They should be immediately changed and the names removed permanently.

One in particular (**) represents an ugly precedent in recent, RW football: "The publicized display of Ion Antonescu's portraits and racist slogans by football hooligans during Liga I's 2005–2006 season prompted UEFA intervention" (see Racism Breaks the Game) (source). This Romanian name combination should be eliminated from GKO and these Romanian players' (620860 and 3973194) names changed - Ion could be simply changed to Ionel or Ionuț.

Main Sources:
http://www.scaruffi.com/politics/dictat.html
http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/tyrants.htm
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LieCheatNsteal

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Re: [POLL]Images and names of tyrants and mass murderers in GKO
« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2012, 05:07:55 AM »
this is quite controversial issue, i m a chinese from malaysia but from my standpoint (refer from your attachment):

For most leaders as i knew ( like: Mao Ze-Dong or Ho Chi Min) the local residents of their respective country mostly seek them as savoir or whatever positive they called.


 

LieCheatNsteal

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Re: [POLL]Images and names of tyrants and mass murderers in GKO
« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2012, 05:22:01 AM »
besides it would be troublesome if this feature were passed:

then someone would try to banned political, regional or RW football they dont like cause of vary reasons

Fradel Rovajar

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Re: [POLL]Images and names of tyrants and mass murderers in GKO
« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2012, 05:54:50 AM »
Yeah, I agree with Brian, as it says in letter of first John chapter 3 verses 15 (NW Bible) "Everyone who hates his brother is a manslayer, and you know that no manslayer has everlasting life remaining in him" so IMHO it's not proper to upload their pictures to GKO features.

Brian Clough

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Re: [POLL]Images and names of tyrants and mass murderers in GKO
« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2012, 06:07:34 AM »
besides it would be troublesome if this feature were passed:

then someone would try to banned political, regional or RW football they dont like cause of vary reasons

I can see where you're coming from, but this isn't about politics or personal opinions. These monsters are documented criminals who have perpetrated crimes against humanity. These figures are only used for purposes of hatred, racism, bigotry, and idolatry, which only serve to obscure issues of social, economic, or political significance.

Just as in RW football, players, fans and coaches should be banned by the GKO governing body for this kind of action. For a good recent example, look no further than the U21 match between Serbia and England on 16 October 2012. UEFA ultimately stepped in, banning 4 players and 2 coaches, fining the Serbian FA, and banning fans from their next match. GKO admin owes us all the same courtesy.

GKO is NOT the place for this kind of expression. There is many a dark corner on the interweb for racists and bigots to feel at home. Let's not let GKO become one of them!
 ;)
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Kr10s

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Re: [POLL]Images and names of tyrants and mass murderers in GKO
« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2012, 09:31:32 AM »
I agree with you Brian, but i don't know if something would change about it....

And now that i think about it, there are bigger issues IMHO:

http://www.gokickoff.com/team_overviews.php?club_id=242077
http://www.gokickoff.com/team_overviews.php?club_id=51361
http://www.gokickoff.com/team_overviews.php?club_id=50925
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lordaust

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Re: [POLL]Images and names of tyrants and mass murderers in GKO
« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2012, 02:04:42 PM »
Althogh I have no love for any extremism, racism or political outliers, but I do not think GKO is the place for sensorship.
How can GKO be responsible for the choices of their members?

That is just too much too ask IMO.

People: Think before you choose teamname and avatars please... This is a football manager game of fun and shared enthusiasm, not a political scene.

Brian Clough

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Re: [POLL]Images and names of tyrants and mass murderers in GKO
« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2012, 04:02:47 PM »
I agree with you Brian, but i don't know if something would change about it....

And now that i think about it, there are bigger issues IMHO:

http://www.gokickoff.com/team_overviews.php?club_id=242077
http://www.gokickoff.com/team_overviews.php?club_id=51361
http://www.gokickoff.com/team_overviews.php?club_id=50925

 :-[

Perhaps Lordaust is right, censorship may not be the answer...but if it is not for admins to prohibit historical figures and other names/images that symbolize and promote racism, bigotry, and other forms of social oppression, then it must be up to us. I would like to hear from admin on this point, but if they will not take responsibility to keep GKO free of this kind of thing, then I hope we will do our best to make these managers feel utterly unwelcome here in GKO.

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chuncho_

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Re: [POLL]Images and names of tyrants and mass murderers in GKO
« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2012, 05:32:12 PM »
in every society even very small like this in gk, must have minimum rules of coexistence is not any way to attack its members,
and as we are talking here of people around the world must take care of these, promoting respect for obscure proven elements for humanity
time ago the manager send a message from someone who signed himself with a Nazi sign, like many other things that are dangerous to many people trying to live in peace and dignity

johnblasa

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Re: [POLL]Images and names of tyrants and mass murderers in GKO
« Reply #9 on: December 21, 2012, 10:05:43 PM »
Ignorance is everywhere ... but we don't "move the dust" and speak about this stupid people that don't know the historycal mass killers ... I agree if we BAN some offensive names we must BAN also offensive images....
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Duongspy

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Re: [POLL]Images and names of tyrants and mass murderers in GKO
« Reply #10 on: December 22, 2012, 10:40:14 AM »
In Vietnam, we have to say good things about Ho Chi Minh, about Communist Party of Vietnam  :o if we do the opposite, we will be imprisoned by them (Vietnam communist )  >:(
 
Here, we haven't human rights, voice...Unfortunately the Arab Spring has not come to Vietnam  :'(
« Last Edit: December 22, 2012, 10:42:51 AM by Duongspy »

Psihoooo

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Re: [POLL]Images and names of tyrants and mass murderers in GKO
« Reply #11 on: December 22, 2012, 07:37:10 PM »
portrait of Stalin bother you? then do not visit Russia certainly has a lot of images of Stalin. image of Stalin is not disturbing. purely shows his way to leading his team. harsh and unforgiving. Not nice you want to ban the club for an image that you do not like.

Brian Clough

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Re: [POLL]Images and names of tyrants and mass murderers in GKO
« Reply #12 on: December 22, 2012, 11:41:15 PM »
portrait of Stalin bother you? then do not visit Russia certainly has a lot of images of Stalin. image of Stalin is not disturbing. purely shows his way to leading his team. harsh and unforgiving. Not nice you want to ban the club for an image that you do not like.

It's not that I personally don't like him or his politics, but the fact that there are friends and families of tens of millions wrongfully killed and imprisoned in gulags who should not have to endure the sight of the monster, not here anyway. If you look closely, I am not singling out any single man, social group, nationality, or ideology. Stalin is not the only bloodthirsty tyrant whose imagery and likeness have no place in GKO - they come from all geographic, political, and ideological backgrounds (did you even look at the list?). I also never said people should be banned for using these, but they should be required to change them.

"His way of leading his team"
??? so he wants to kill or imprison all his opponents? LOL I guess that would make victory really easy.

There is no forgiveness for Stalin's actions, and "harsh" barely begins to describe them. Even his Soviet predecessors denounced him - Khrushchev for his "cult of personality and its consequences" (source) while Gorbachev said that he committed "enormous and unforgivable" crimes (source). More recently, Russian president  Dmitry Medvedev denounced the efforts of people seeking to rehabilitate Stalin's image, saying that "the mass extermination during the Stalin era cannot be justified" (source). He wasn't even a good Communist, institutionalizing what both Marxists and Trotskyists called "state capitalism" over real socialism (source)

Sure, there are those who romanticize Stalin as competent leaders, but that is because the nation has never fully dealt with the crimes of Stalinism. Instead, the complexities of life in a fragmented modern society that can boast of no momentous achievements -- no more superpower status, no new Sputniks -- have made some Russians nostalgic for the "strong state" they once inhabited. It's a cycle that will keep on repeating itself until Russia finally and fully confronts its past.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2013, 07:38:54 AM by Brian Clough »
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Brian Clough

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Re: [POLL]Images and names of tyrants and mass murderers in GKO
« Reply #13 on: December 23, 2012, 03:18:31 AM »
All off-topic posts have been removed. Please limit any comments to the subject of this thread. Thanks!
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Ruta

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Re: [POLL]Images and names of tyrants and mass murderers in GKO
« Reply #14 on: December 23, 2012, 08:16:56 AM »
I choose yes in the poll, but who will be decide about those names? Which one wil be forbidden?

Look, about Stallin,Hi Chi Minh  we had mess. I can imagine a lot more names which are hero for one country and evil for another :(

I think we should forbidden all things associated to religion and politicy, online game isn't place to show personal things.
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Andy

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Re: [POLL]Images and names of tyrants and mass murderers in GKO
« Reply #15 on: December 23, 2012, 02:48:49 PM »
Guys,

The great thing about GKO is it brings together people from all over the world, from all sorts of cultures, religions and political leanings. We all have just one thing in common that brings us together: the great, great game of football.

If anyone takes offence with a team name, a managers name or picture please make your complaint directly to GKO and hopefully they will ask the manager to change it. (There is no need for a ban IMO).

There is no need for a list, if something offends you, report it. If you get a complaint, then please change your name / image as soon as possible: we are all football fans and we are just here to play a football manager game, nothing more.

 :-*

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Re: [POLL]Images and names of tyrants and mass murderers in GKO
« Reply #16 on: February 01, 2013, 08:16:30 PM »
inappropriate Club logo !!

club id: (259458)

http://www.gokickoff.com/team_overviews.php?club_id=259458

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Re: [POLL]Images and names of tyrants and mass murderers in GKO
« Reply #17 on: February 01, 2013, 10:54:05 PM »
Now, Brian, the thing is,  :( Joseph Stalin is not officially categorized as a mass-murderer in many countries.  ::) As is the case of Ho of Vietnam and Mao of PRC and Jiang of Taiwan. Who we really need to deal with is those clubs and managers who support something internationally and generally unacceptable (e.g. nazism, racism, etc. ;)) Other things which are no doubt, bad, like communism and closed feodality and so on is still widely accepted (or forcedly accepted) in many regions.So thefirst step towards our goal is to BAN those players who use Adolf Hitler or Nazi as their logo or name or club name.
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pere

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Re: [POLL]Images and names of tyrants and mass murderers in GKO
« Reply #19 on: March 01, 2013, 07:54:00 AM »
Brian Clough well for me the picture is just a picture,but as long as it dose not hurt any body that picture is a good picture.so for t6he stalin picture if it is hurt the feeling of many people this picture have to be remove>>>>>>>>>

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