Author Topic: [Suggestions] The World Cup Knockout Stages AGAIN!!! (Read 7654 times)

karlooo · « **on:** June 24, 2012, 11:04:46 PM »

I have a proposal for the knockout stage. I noticed that the choice of couples is done randomly, and I think a better like this:

Ologga · « **Reply #1 on:** June 24, 2012, 11:46:04 PM »

is the same that we have now. i prefer randomly.

Kr10s · « **Reply #2 on:** June 25, 2012, 02:23:53 AM »

Well.... it could be better if we could have a clue what our next opponent could be. At least to have some time to analyze them.

And, let's be honest, it must be some order..... same for national cup!

marius.82 · « **Reply #3 on:** June 25, 2012, 05:10:40 AM »

it is not about knowing the oponent faster is about fairness of the draw, there should be some clear condition. (for example 2 teams that are played in group stage one against another should not met before semifinals) it should be like fifa and uefa competition
1st place group A vs 2 place group H 1st place group B vs 2nd place group G 1st place group C vs 2nd place group F
2nd place group A vs 1st place group H 2nd place groub B vs 1st plase group G 2nd place group C vs 1st place group F
1st place group D vs 2nd place group E
2nd place group D vs 1st place group E in that whay things are more transparent !!!

Ologga · « **Reply #4 on:** June 25, 2012, 10:05:18 AM »

Quote from: CarlosT on June 25, 2012, 02:23:53 AM

Well.... it could be better if we could have a clue what our next opponent could be. At least to have some time to analyze them.

And, let's be honest, it must be some order..... same for national cup!

I prefer randomly because may be cases where a manager can 'play' according to the possible adversaries he can receive if he finish 1st or 2nd, for example if Argentina is prevue that will finish 2nd and Samoa 1st, in the group that is crossed with them everybody will want to finish 2nd.

The 'cup' tournaments have the incentive of the draw and any team can be your adversary, like many of you has said before in other posts, it's beautiful if teams of low categories reach the final, and for that is quite important to have some good luck in the draw, that must be pure.

marius.82 · « **Reply #5 on:** June 25, 2012, 10:17:50 AM »

i respect your opinion Ologga, but i believe titles should be gained with work and inspiration.

Kr10s · « **Reply #6 on:** June 25, 2012, 10:58:01 AM »

Quote from: Ologga on June 25, 2012, 10:05:18 AM

I prefer randomly because may be cases where a manager can 'play' according to the possible adversaries he can receive if he finish 1st or 2nd, for example if Argentina is prevue that will finish 2nd and Samoa 1st, in the group that is crossed with them everybody will want to finish 2nd.

The 'cup' tournaments have the incentive of the draw and any team can be your adversary, like many of you has said before in other posts, it's beautiful if teams of low categories reach the final, and for that is quite important to have some good luck in the draw, that must be pure.

Ologga, what you say is probably true, but also can happen something different. Yesterday at least 2 teams saved players (China and Belgium) because they were on second round. If they could know that losing their first position, they have more hances to fight against a stronger oponent, do you think they would do that? Current system can attempt against competition fairness too.

And to be honest... i didn't mean that i wanted to avoid teams, i asked to have the chance to plan my gameplan correctly, i already have some clues in mind (what i'll need to do if i want to beat Geece next wednesday) and it would be healthy to know what teams i should aim to the next match if i keep going (scouting players, analyzing tactics), things becomes way faster starting next wednesday. I'm sorry but i don't like the "luck based" idea, i always liked the "hard work" idea. Current system only helps those who improvise.

Ologga · « **Reply #7 on:** June 25, 2012, 12:32:26 PM »

Quote from: CarlosT on June 25, 2012, 10:58:01 AM

And to be honest... i didn't mean that i wanted to avoid teams, i asked to have the chance to plan my gameplan correctly, i already have some clues in mind (what i'll need to do if i want to beat Geece next wednesday) and it would be healthy to know what teams i should aim to the next match if i keep going (scouting players, analyzing tactics), things becomes way faster starting next wednesday. I'm sorry but i don't like the "luck based" idea, i always liked the "hard work" idea. Current system only helps those who improvise.

it's ok, but in my opinion cup competitions always must have a point of luck in the draw, teams must be prepared for win to no matter what adversary, for a predictable competition we have the league. the problem that you have in the WC-21 is that there is not time between the matches.

Kr10s · « **Reply #8 on:** June 25, 2012, 12:33:46 PM »

Quote from: Ologga on June 25, 2012, 12:32:26 PM

the problem that you have in the WC-21 is that there is not time between the matches.

If you increase the time between matches, postseason would be longer, do you want that?

Ologga · « **Reply #9 on:** June 25, 2012, 01:50:22 PM »

Quote from: CarlosT on June 25, 2012, 12:33:46 PM

Quote from: Ologga on June 25, 2012, 12:32:26 PM
the problem that you have in the WC-21 is that there is not time between the matches.

If you increase the time between matches, postseason would be longer, do you want that?

I don't want to increase the break time, I only said that you have no much time for make the tactics according to your opinion, but that means that GM should find another solution for WC that could be played replacing those all Friday's friendlies.

panjcof · « **Reply #10 on:** June 25, 2012, 02:01:16 PM »

Quote from: karlooo on June 24, 2012, 11:04:46 PM

I have a proposal for the knockout stage. I noticed that the choice of couples is done randomly, and I think a better like this:

I totally agree with you,if that system was used i would play against China not against Thailand who has probably the strongest team in the competition

Ologga · « **Reply #11 on:** June 25, 2012, 02:07:59 PM »

Quote from: panjcof on June 25, 2012, 02:01:16 PM

Quote from: karlooo on June 24, 2012, 11:04:46 PM
I have a proposal for the knockout stage. I noticed that the choice of couples is done randomly, and I think a better like this:

I totally agree with you,if that system was used i would play against China not against Thailand who has probably the strongest team in the competition

Would you say the same if your current adversary would be Salomon Islands instead of Thailand?. I supose not.

Kr10s · « **Reply #12 on:** June 25, 2012, 02:20:28 PM »

Quote from: panjcof on June 25, 2012, 02:01:16 PM

I totally agree with you,if that system was used i would play against China not against Thailand who has probably the strongest team in the competition

You'd be speculating then.....

I believe it was not the essence in karlooo's suggestion. I believe he wanted to suggest that we should be able to see what should be coming next, if you know that you will need to play against Thailand, at least you have more time to think about that match.

Right now, you need to wait and to see the server updated (almost half an hour after the match), to find out what comes next, and wish that your team isn't removed, even if you won your group lol. Not to menction that random seeding never seems "fair".

Just to end... World Cup is a huge event, it deserves to be more clear and ordered... People from Paraguay is upset, because they had the same points, goals for and goals against compared with Montenegro but they were eliminated... can anybody tell them what criteria were used to pick Montenegro? Nation ranking? Impossible, Paraguay is better ranked..... Alphabetical or random? You've got to be kidding me then...

marius.82 · « **Reply #13 on:** June 25, 2012, 02:36:40 PM »

many things are not done in a proffesional way, that should be fixed before asking people to pay for premium account to pay people who work for this site. don't you think ?!

berkan · « **Reply #14 on:** June 25, 2012, 02:44:07 PM »

I think the proposal karlooo is very good and I think they should take into account.

I also think that when there is parity of points and goals, ranked the best selection should go to the next stage, the U-21 Selection of Paraguay has been harmed in this, that the selection of U-21 Montenegro was changed to the following stage and has a lower ranking of Paraguay.

Please be fair!!

panjcof · « **Reply #15 on:** June 25, 2012, 06:49:48 PM »

Quote from: Ologga on June 25, 2012, 02:07:59 PM

Quote from: panjcof on June 25, 2012, 02:01:16 PM
Quote from: karlooo on June 24, 2012, 11:04:46 PM
I have a proposal for the knockout stage. I noticed that the choice of couples is done randomly, and I think a better like this:

I totally agree with you,if that system was used i would play against China not against Thailand who has probably the strongest team in the competition

Would you say the same if your current adversary would be Salomon Islands instead of Thailand?. I supose not.

Well... that doesnt mean that i am giving up before even match started but i am only saying that i didnt have much luck with draw

Kr10s · « **Reply #16 on:** June 25, 2012, 06:53:21 PM »

Quote from: panjcof on June 25, 2012, 06:49:48 PM

i am only saying that i didnt have much luck with draw

You had luck advancing through the next stage, without having any real difference compared with Paraguay, so please, don't complain... they'd love to be in your "unlucky" position

panjcof · « **Reply #17 on:** June 25, 2012, 07:00:56 PM »

Quote from: CarlosT on June 25, 2012, 06:53:21 PM

Quote from: panjcof on June 25, 2012, 06:49:48 PM
i am only saying that i didnt have much luck with draw

You had luck advancing through the next stage, without having any real difference compared with Paraguay, so please, don't complain... they'd love to be in your "unlucky" position

Yeah Carlos you are right about that. I advanced group only because of alphabetical, but you must say i did a great job when you see how small base of player Montenegro has and that i dont have many U21 players of my nationality and most of them are average...

but i admit i had very much luck

Kr10s · « **Reply #18 on:** June 25, 2012, 07:14:36 PM »

Gladly, my country's name starts with "A", so only 8 countries can defeat me alphabetically

But hey, of course you have your credit, don't take me wrong, you made it great so far! Keep it up men!

panjcof · « **Reply #19 on:** June 25, 2012, 07:21:25 PM »

Tnx mate

you now what they say as long as you are in the competition you can win it

no matter what happens in the next game i can produly say that i was the biggest surpise of the tournament

karlooo · « **Reply #20 on:** June 25, 2012, 08:40:20 PM »

If you already made ??a game per real life, I think the proposal is in place, that we all know to which groups intersect. Of course, I regret the draw in groups, where it happens that there is no balance.

I want know the order and on what basis the groups crossbred. It is too much random in this game and it should be corrected

Brian Clough · « **Reply #21 on:** June 26, 2012, 01:47:54 AM »

Quote from: karlooo on June 24, 2012, 11:04:46 PM

I have a proposal for the knockout stage. I noticed that the choice of couples is done randomly, and I think a better like this:

Quote from: [email protected] on June 25, 2012, 05:10:40 AM

it is not about knowing the oponent faster is about fairness of the draw, there should be some clear condition. (for example 2 teams that are played in group stage one against another should not met before semifinals) it should be like fifa and uefa competition
1st place group A vs 2 place group H 1st place group B vs 2nd place group G 1st place group C vs 2nd place group F
2nd place group A vs 1st place group H 2nd place groub B vs 1st plase group G 2nd place group C vs 1st place group F
1st place group D vs 2nd place group E
2nd place group D vs 1st place group E in that whay things are more transparent !!!

Well, I agree with both of these posts...and even think it should work this way in WCL too. Only in national cups should competitors be drawn each round imho.