Author Topic: MANAGING NATIONAL TEAM (PARTIAL)  (Read 12637 times)

Brian Clough

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Re: MANAGING NATIONAL TEAM (PARTIAL)
« Reply #25 on: August 16, 2013, 03:21:13 AM »
What if...

1) Allow premium users to be candidates for the NT manager position in any one nation they choose. Other users may only become a candidate in their home nation.
2) In small nations (<50 users) the manager is selected based on merit (e.g. most club ranking points over past 2 seasons) rather than election
3) In other nations the manager is elected by popular vote exactly as it is now.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2013, 03:06:02 AM by Brian Clough »
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famouson17

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Re: MANAGING NATIONAL TEAM (PARTIAL)
« Reply #26 on: August 16, 2013, 08:43:59 AM »
"Drifter started on Bermuda top level from the very beginning, he had the chance to bring 20.000 people from the firts day. He got 300.000G for winning league.
I started on D level, with some luck, i could bring 9.000 people, when i won the league i got 250.000G. Next season i could bring 12.000 people and i won 350.000G, Drifter could bring 20.000 people again, had a WCC match to play and made 300.000G again, was that fair?"

you are right to some extent, you have more users in your country and you have to start from a low level before you get to top level compare to ours were we just start from the top level but that isn't enough to give Champions peanuts (300.000G) for winning the league, 500.000g is more considerable and come to think of it all countries play same numbers of games, after winning the league a substantial amount ought to be given to the  team that won the league.

GKO ADMINS are not been  fair at all. ???
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Re: MANAGING NATIONAL TEAM (PARTIAL)
« Reply #27 on: August 16, 2013, 08:52:56 AM »
I am so sorry guys but an election is just not possible with only a few active members.

You should really check every country and their active users and delete inactive teams faster ! I mean we all can see Total users for each country but somewhere those numbers aren't even close to that number !

It's better for a country with total users:30 and all of them really active to have a NT manager , than a country with total users: 100 and only 10 active !

Also are countrys guaranteed NT elections for life once they reach 50 total users ?
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storm123

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Re: MANAGING NATIONAL TEAM (PARTIAL)
« Reply #28 on: August 16, 2013, 09:00:09 AM »
if you aren't born in a big country ,  it's your fault ? If you guys are borned in Bermuda , Nigeria or Japan , you don't have the right to manage your NT , beacause , they said , you don't have at least 50 users . But , they asked  for those with premium account the privillage to manage another NT .As many benefits they have , as many they want ...the smallest  can only watch  :))..just sad

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Re: MANAGING NATIONAL TEAM (PARTIAL)
« Reply #29 on: August 16, 2013, 04:03:18 PM »
 ;) I started in Bermuda.  This is true.  I started in the Top League.  This is true.  I got 7000 people per game the first season.  This is also true.  People seem to think that when you start this game you somehow have the cash to do all the things everyone says you can do.  You get all these people in your seats for example.  Just to make a point, you can't even get that many seats from the start unless you somehow have the vision to invest all you starting capital into seats.  Let's be realistic.  This didn't happen so all the advantages you speak of are basically hypothetical. 
Starting at the top and staying at the top winning peanuts may seem like a good way to start, but there is no room for improvement either.  We are not competing with other teams that have the same capital restrictions as we do so it is irrelevant that we in Bermuda started in the top league. I personally would like the chance to start at the bottom and work my way up to winning 1 million for the league.  As of now, I need to win the league  more than three times to compete with a team that wins the league once. 
Yeah, we all know that there is no fairness here, but that is besides the point.  I don't even care about all that.  I simply want to see my national team play like they have some clue how to play the game.  Default this and default that... they are so much better and we in Bermuda want the chance to prove this.
I'm so tired of hearing, "You started in the top league, you should be happy."  I have a shot out to all those haters who are in lower leagues looking at the Bermuda clubs with envy.  This is our birth right! We were born into this.  It wasn't some choice we made.  We sign up and since nobody is in Bermuda, we go to the top. We are tired of people hating the fact that this is how it is in our country.  We didn't have a choice just like you didn't when you joined the league. 
Admin has already said there is nothing they can do about this with I feel is bogus.  It's really not a big deal to anyone except us, and those others who wish only to seem more unfair practices in the GKO world that benefit themselves.
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Re: MANAGING NATIONAL TEAM (PARTIAL)
« Reply #30 on: August 16, 2013, 04:11:01 PM »
Who is offtopic now?

Quote
I'm so tired of hearing, "You started in the top league, you should be happy."  I have a shot out to all those haters who are in lower leagues looking at the Bermuda clubs with envy.  This is our birth right! We were born into this.

Then let me shout this: Your country doesn't match requirements to be user controlled, your position had it's pros, deal with their cons!

I wanted to leave this thread behind, so i will only say: Congratulations to the Malta community, their users worked hard and they have a human manager controlling them.
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Re: MANAGING NATIONAL TEAM (PARTIAL)
« Reply #31 on: August 16, 2013, 05:48:41 PM »
Thanks Carlos, as i am the new coach of MALTA.

 thanks , yes we worked very hard we increased in the number of coaches, and now even the 3rd division is opened fur us.
we worked together the main 10 coaches in malta, very hard and asked many friends to join in.

Now new coaches are inserted int he 3rd division, from now on. We even made a group in facebook among ourselves ,(the maltese coaches) , and we communicate to each other and help each other and even make arms for the clubs to each other. Last week we even met in a pub for the first time and had a great meal together, to know each other well.

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Re: MANAGING NATIONAL TEAM (PARTIAL)
« Reply #32 on: August 17, 2013, 02:45:06 AM »
@ Drifter and @CarlosT

IMHO, a country with all human managers in Top Level (16 human managers) should be permitted to manage National Team, at least at some level i.e. U-21. A country with all human managers (16) in Top Level and capable of promoting Human managers from Second Division should be given chance to manage their country.

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Re: MANAGING NATIONAL TEAM (PARTIAL)
« Reply #33 on: August 17, 2013, 03:03:10 AM »
And another opinion which might look funny to you but I want to share.

The countries with low human count should be allowed to hire an external manager. For example, my country Pakistan has only 2 or 3 active managers and 2 to 3 semi active managers. In this scenario, we should be allowed to hire a manager from more populated country like Thailand. I think this can be done with some sort of consensus. :-\

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Re: MANAGING NATIONAL TEAM (PARTIAL)
« Reply #34 on: August 17, 2013, 04:07:11 AM »
I will post a comment, just because Mubashar refered to me on his comment, and i don't want to ignore him:

IMHO, a country with all human managers in Top Level (16 human managers)

I think it would be fine if 30 active managers would be found. That would be a top level filled (16) and 5 human managers in each B level (i know, it would be 31 in total), it's not a crazy number, i believe.....

And another opinion which might look funny to you but I want to share.

The countries with low human count should be allowed to hire an external manager

It was suggested too, as a premium feature (see here), but it seems some people refuses that idea.

For now, the only think that people can aim is try to do something similar than maltese community, they increased numbers in active users, added more levels to their league, won the right to have a human user controlling the NT and probably will get full league prizes at the end of the season.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2013, 04:18:49 AM by CarlosT »
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Re: MANAGING NATIONAL TEAM (PARTIAL)
« Reply #35 on: August 17, 2013, 06:59:14 PM »
 ;) I think that Mubashar makes two very good points.  He is thinking of solutions rather than trying to avoid the problem. 
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Re: MANAGING NATIONAL TEAM (PARTIAL)
« Reply #36 on: August 17, 2013, 07:43:45 PM »
That's too bad that some people becomes a small issue into a huge drama, and doesn't spend time reading other people's comments, only attacks if people doesn't accept his request exactly as he wants:

Only 10 members????? I can agree with you that 50 active managers can be a little hard to get (and it's harder when new teams must wait too long to get a league) but only 10 users? It can produce a huge manipulatio.....

Any country that can show a list with 30 ACTIVE managers should have the chance.

Bermuda is not the only country involved on it so there are many chances that somebody cheat ok? But we proposed many solutions to create competitive NT fom low populated countries, none of them were considered (there is an interesting discussion here).

To add, the posibility that a foreign manager controls a "small" NT is listed there, and i agreed with that suggestion, we werent's listened back then, that's not my fault.

Drifter, i proposed similar things than him, it's too bad you never were opened to read them from me and you directed your attack against me as soon as you could....
« Last Edit: August 17, 2013, 07:54:02 PM by CarlosT »
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Re: MANAGING NATIONAL TEAM (PARTIAL)
« Reply #37 on: August 17, 2013, 08:16:14 PM »
Carlos, I am sad that You are atacking when you told your point. More I agree with you that there have to be some limits of active users for NT elections. In Poland we had 33 votes only. I am couries how many was at Malta? This game have no staff to watch many more important things than NT elections. So if there isn't staff watch thre have to be a solid community for that.

Drifter, no offence but I don't think that 10 users are a trust worth community
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Re: MANAGING NATIONAL TEAM (PARTIAL)
« Reply #38 on: August 18, 2013, 12:02:21 AM »
 ;) Why not allow those communities with low active members to manage the national team, but not select players for the team.  The team players can be selected just as they would if there was no manager.  The manager's would just be involved in team selection on the field and tactics.  :-\ I think many would be satisfied with that.
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Re: MANAGING NATIONAL TEAM (PARTIAL)
« Reply #39 on: August 18, 2013, 12:25:26 AM »
;) Why not allow those communities with low active members to manage the national team, but not select players for the team.  The team players can be selected just as they would if there was no manager.  The manager's would just be involved in team selection on the field and tactics.  :-\ I think many would be satisfied with that.

Now we are talking a similar language!!!!!!  8)

Drifter, i do understand that you feel that your country deserves something better than a bot manager, playing 4-4-2 and setting everything at "default", i do understand that you want Bermuda winning matches, but i also know that, if the "available to be user controlled" status becomes absolutely free, we will have far bigger issues to deal with than now.

In all these seasons, i were involved in Argentina NT duties in many different ways (manager, assistant manager, scout), i have seen many things:

* England U21 used to have a manager that used 10 players from his own squad, that last more than a season until the GM removed him from his position.
* France U21 used to have a manager (wasn't french actually) that used the NT to place his own players in NT, increasing their value, just to sell them, when he used to get the money from his players, those players never returned to the NT.
* Russia NT used to have a manager using many players from his own squad, playing official matches, just for training purposes, he used to play with a CA2 keeper (LA5) a whole qualifying (14 NT matches in a season), i reported him to GM many times, and i always got the same answer "I will warn him"
* China U21 used to have a manager that used to place his friend's players in NT when the competition was over, the "U21 player for sale" message was everywhere, and those players weren't U21 players actually.

And surely, there are many more out there that we never knew....

As you can see, we had many illegal (or unproper) behavior so far, all of them never happened twice because those countries have the ability to vote and don't give him that power again, small countries have a big problem: elections can be manipulated.

I understand that Bermuda is a low populated country, that getting 50 active managers is a really complicated issue, i know few managers from there and i know that people from there didn't cheat, but you must understand that there are many countries in similar situation like yours, and some of them have even less active managers than Bermuda, some of these countries are used to create satellite teams or just to farm squads faster, if we allow that a community with only 10 active users become absolutelly user-controlled, that user might take control of NT with only few votes (not to menction that, if he is a multiaccount user, he can easily control 3 or 4 teams).
That's the main reason because i said that a bigger number should be needed, 30 users seemed a reasonable number, if that community has a manager fit for the job, he's got more chances to control the NT than a manager that wins an election with 4 or 6 votes.

Drifter, it was never against you, i have nothing personal against you or your people, i know that sometimes i sound arrogant, but i don't come here to fight against other users, it's just that i have seen many weird things, and i don't want to deal with more and more cheaters, your solution can be reasonable, it might be worth a shot.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2013, 01:00:51 AM by CarlosT »
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Re: MANAGING NATIONAL TEAM (PARTIAL)
« Reply #40 on: August 18, 2013, 12:49:04 PM »
I agree that admin should give more evaluation towards who can be categorized as an active user and who cannot. I am the Denmark National Team manager and I like my position, but Denmark only have 28 users and only 15 of them participated in the election. I think the spot may be opened by the admin if there are more than 10 users who are categorized as ACTIVE, instead of just calculating those who have registered and consequently calculated those accounts who've been only online for once.
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Re: MANAGING NATIONAL TEAM (PARTIAL)
« Reply #41 on: August 18, 2013, 07:36:07 PM »
Some good ideas, but the fact remains that elections just won't work well in many tiny nations. Even in Bermuda, imagine if one user (from another nation) decided to buy 10 premium accounts in Bermuda. His 10 votes might very well win him the election and there is nothing you could do about it. I'm sure that's not what you want.

Another problem is that, even in larger nations, very few managers participate in elections. My nation supposedly has 208 users, probably 50-75 are active, yet only 23 votes were cast in the recent manager election; the winner won with only 10 votes! TBH a manager in a larger nation could theoretically buy the manager spot with tokens! While 10 premium accounts in a tiny nation would cost 150 euros, 10 votes might cost just 50 euros (@ 5 euros/10 tokens per vote). Given the fact that some managers don't mind spending 20 euros just to get a player on loan, I could see the same ones finding it easier to buy votes than gain other managers' respect.

There should probably be something to encourage more participation in all nations' NT manager elections. Even 23 is simply too low IMHO...I'd say 25 or even 30 votes (total) should be required for the election of a manager by popular vote regardless of how many "users" a nation has. If this minimum is not met, the manager position should be decided bye the game engine purely on the basis of merit (e.g. club ranking points over the past 2 seasons).

This would work well with my proposed system where
- All users can run for their domestic NT manager job
- Premium users may run for any NT manager job (but only 1)
- National votes are held in all nations. Each nation receives a manager based on either popular vote or merit, depending on the number of votes cast.


This way, every nation can have a human manager, which is the important thing here. The biggest potential problem with this system would be one premium user with multiple accounts managing multiple nations. However, this would probably not be a big problem since they would most likely be managing smaller, weaker NTs, not big international rivals.
 
« Last Edit: August 19, 2013, 05:31:31 AM by Brian Clough »
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Mubashar

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Re: MANAGING NATIONAL TEAM (PARTIAL)
« Reply #42 on: August 18, 2013, 08:49:04 PM »

This would work well with my proposed system where
- All users can run for their domestic NT manager job
- Premium users may run for any NT manager job (but only 1)
- National votes are held in all nations. Each nation receives a manager based on either popular vote or merit, depending on votes cast.


This way, every nation can have a human manager,


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Re: MANAGING NATIONAL TEAM (PARTIAL)
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