Author Topic: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10  (Read 24223 times)

blahblah

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Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
« Reply #50 on: August 19, 2013, 05:26:25 PM »
UMR? USP?

Ruta

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Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
« Reply #51 on: August 19, 2013, 06:59:15 PM »
UMR? USP?
Use More Roaming and Use Stick To Position
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blahblah

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Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
« Reply #52 on: August 20, 2013, 08:50:26 AM »
Ah, thanks, the U's confused me...

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Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
« Reply #53 on: August 21, 2013, 04:41:43 AM »
Most players in my team have teamwork less than 10

 :o :'(

Brian Clough

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Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
« Reply #54 on: August 21, 2013, 05:20:57 AM »
I think this change merely balances the effects of high creativity. Currently, a high creativity midfield can provide a bonus to tactical efficiency, which gives a slight bonus for teams using USP since creativity is part of that tactic. I think this change makes teamwork equally important as creativity, nothing more.
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florinsteaua

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Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
« Reply #55 on: August 21, 2013, 08:15:14 AM »
I think this change merely balances the effects of high creativity. Currently, a high creativity midfield can provide a bonus to tactical efficiency, which gives a slight bonus for teams using USP since creativity is part of that tactic. I think this change makes teamwork equally important as creativity, nothing more.

i totally agree with you...i'm sure that Dev doesn't bring in this new changes to advantage some tactits...it brings in only to rebalance something
soo keep up the good work...i entirely suport this change :)
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BirthSuper4

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Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
« Reply #56 on: August 29, 2013, 02:38:41 AM »
I have one idea..

Cut off Teamwork out from Use more roaming. And Cut off creative out from Use stick to position.

 :-X




GillBate

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Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
« Reply #57 on: August 29, 2013, 03:19:45 AM »
Where does TEAMWORK come from in reality football?
I am sure it come from players who train together with teammate.
Will you get teamwork when you train in the bathroom alone? NO!
Who has TEAMWORK 20 will play well along with all teammates who have TEAMWORK 1? NO!

TEAMWORK is not Individual skill but TEAM SKILL!
The word "teamwork" has evidence itself as TEAM SKILL!

WE HAVE TO TRAIN TEAMWORK WITH 2 PLAYERS+
Teamwork must be increased to all of them in reality.
e.g. If they are training passing technique together, all of them should gain passing skill and teamwork.

Let think as you are playing real football.
If you play 4-4-2 style as main formation for years and one day manager suddenly change to 4-1-2-3 or something.
You always pass to the space where your teammate were and checkmate the goal.
How can it work when we change formation 1 minute before "Match is Processing"?

REALLY TEAMWORK WORKs?

Then, I will talk about UMR and USP, the most effective change.
If teamwork provide more accurate of passing. How about the ultimate accurate passing but stupid?
Yes, it was intercepted.
As I said earlier, TEAMWORK is not individual skill!
So, It can not count as BRAIN of players but CREATIVE.
CREATIVE seems to be the only one skill that is intelligent factor of players.
I accept TEAMWORK to effect defenders because their duty is DEFENSE but creating any chances.
AS creating chances of the game MC/LR AMC/LR FC/LR MUST use creative.

In my opinion, MC/LR AMC/LR FC/LR MUST be effected in new engine with (Creative+Teamwork)/2.

IS IT MORE FAIRER?

Drifter

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Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
« Reply #58 on: August 29, 2013, 04:04:09 AM »
I disagree.  The ability to play with a team is indeed an individual skill. When we look at different players, we find that some easily fit into many systems of play. Some have the ability to enter a team and make an immediate impact on the way that team plays. Some players are good at doing the kinds of things that a team needs to do to win. These things may not include scoring or defending. Covering other positions when a player advances forward or making a critical foul is an example of how a player can act for the team.
 ::) I think back on how Suarez stopped a goal with his hand and was sent from the game in the world cup. This was not a team effort even though his actions ultimately benefited the team.
 :( There are also other players that seem to just cause decent where ever they play. There is always a scandal surrounding them.  They don't get on well with other players, are selfish or just don't seem to fit in even with exceptional skill. These kinds of players are more focus on their efforts and less focused on working with the team to win.
 ;)
Teamwork is a team skill, but it is an individual skill as well. It is a players ability to work with others and it should have an overall effect on that players ability to play.
I also believe that teamwork should be calculated as a team score. I think in this way, teamwork not only effects individual play, but team play overall.
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Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
« Reply #59 on: August 29, 2013, 04:08:07 AM »
I accept TEAMWORK to effect defenders because their duty is DEFENSE but creating any chances.
AS creating chances of the game MC/LR AMC/LR FC/LR MUST use creative.

First of all, i don't consider teamwork as a "defensive" skill alone:

* It can be related to a player's passing rate, some players pass the ball often, others tries to dribble as many players as possible, trying to finish a chance on their own. As Drifter said, teamwork IS also an individual skill.
* It can be considered with "off the ball" ability as a team move: Some players do off the ball run to clear some spaces or taking oponent players with them, leaving empty spaces to his teammates.

Now, do you say that teams MUST use creativity, i am not so sure about that:

Many teams plays with many tactical moves previously trained, they don't need a creative player to be lethal, other teams focuses their attacking moves in playmakers, those teams surely needs creative players.
For instance, you couldn't say that Real Madrid and Barcelona played the same last season, and their playing styles are completely different:

* Real Madrid played a direct playingstyle (mostly effective in counter attack moves) using Ronaldo, Di María and Higuaín doing as many off the ball moves as possible, with deep passing to open spaces.
* Barcelona played something completely different: Ball possesion maxed, with 2 playmakers defined (Xavi and Iniesta, and Messi as a third sometimes) trying to create the scoring chance on their passing and trying to take advantage on opponent's moves.

If you go further, last UCL Champion (Bayern Munich) was not a very creative team, they were a smooth machine, filled with many team moves that are not entirely related to creativity (such as off the ball or pick and roll moves), will you tell me they lacked teamwork?

Now, you might like how each team played or not, but all those teams played at a very a high teamwork level.

To me, creativity should be mostly effective against teams packed behind and not that effective against teams playing attacking formations: Last season, Real Madrid had many trouble against teams packed behind, mostly because their only "high creativity player" were inconsistent (Ozil), Barcelona always managed themselves far easier against those teams.
Now, when oponent team plays attacking, you don't need to be that creative, empty spaces to lift a deep ball are a lot easier to find after all.

That should be creativity's real use IMO.....
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Lost ME

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Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
« Reply #60 on: August 29, 2013, 04:40:25 AM »
I agree with. (Creative + Teamwork) / 2.

If you have a team and willing to do anything.  But you no have brain. It was not successful

Same as If you have Teamwork But you no have Creative.

GillBate

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Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
« Reply #61 on: August 29, 2013, 05:15:41 AM »
We talk about human. Forget about Bacelona, they are aliens. hahaha joking but They really have been calling as alien team in Thai media.  :P

HSTEHSTE

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Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
« Reply #62 on: August 29, 2013, 05:25:11 AM »
Same thing with Chinese media. The problem I would like to address is that teamwork cannot be trained with the absence of decisions unless trained specifically. As far as I know decisions has little or no use except in defending and offside creating. How then can we train low PR attacking players? Or is my perception of decisions wrong?
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GillBate

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Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
« Reply #63 on: August 29, 2013, 05:57:43 AM »
I want to say first that this is a GAME, not real football. There are many factors in real football but GKO does not have.
So, we have to use WHAT GKO have. I did not consider TEAMWORK as defending skill alone too.
I just following admin as teamwork will effect more in new engine.

If you pass to open space to teammate but he does not run to get the ball. Is teamwork successful?
It's like you crap your hands. Ok, let's do team work by craping only one hand.

I am talking about solution in UMR and USP conflict. I admit that you know about football more than me.
I study computer engineering, I think about the code and possible calculating as programer.

The point is UMR managers train Teamwork a lot but creative, and USP managers train Creative a lot but Teamwork.
Each manager focus about their tactic. As the other skill can not be used in tactic, they will not train.
Real game may be like this

UMR : Creative = 3, Teamwork = 15
USP : Creative = 15, Teamwork = 3

it's Win-Win solution to use (Creative + Teamwork) / 2.
If you do not think Creative that equally important as team work, change the display name of "creative" then, variable is still the same and work.
Just rename "Creative" if you do not like it or disagree. I mention to solve the conflict.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2013, 06:56:20 AM by GillBate »

GillBate

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Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
« Reply #64 on: August 29, 2013, 06:23:28 AM »
Just rename "Creative" to "Offensive teamwork" and "teamwork" to "Defensive teamwork" So, they are both teamwork then (O.Teamwork + D.teamwork)/2 = teamwork. Perfect! Hahaha :P

Rincewind

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Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
« Reply #65 on: August 29, 2013, 07:53:24 AM »
Will "teamwork" ability affect every tactics only through your own players or both own and opposite players?

GillBate

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Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
« Reply #66 on: August 29, 2013, 08:21:45 AM »
What will new engine do? (Total of Teamwork) / 10 ?

Nory Levi

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Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
« Reply #67 on: August 29, 2013, 10:44:09 AM »
Most of players have low team work rating because it wasn't important in the past

GillBate

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Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
« Reply #68 on: August 29, 2013, 11:25:33 AM »
 ;) Let's do a math.

UMR = (Pace+Acceleration)/2, Stamina, Teamwork, Off the ball
USP = (Strength+Balance)/2, Creativity, Technique, Passing (New SS, +Teamwork)

Next season, USP have to train one more skill "Teamwork".
All team who use USP which reached LA will get problems, big problems!

UMR has to train 5 skills while USP have to train 6 skills.
Almost UMR players may have high teamwork which get more and more advantage if it effects all action.

As the point of UMR and USP. They have not got equally number of skills.
To balance this, Teamwork on UMR must be half.
e.g. Teamwork = 20, when use USP Teamwork = 20, when use UMR Teamwork = 10.
If developer make Teamwork more important or VIP to every actions then decrease Teamwork of UMR by 3x or 4x in return.

Are you guys USP manager satisfied with this?

Kr10s

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Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
« Reply #69 on: August 29, 2013, 11:58:25 AM »
I understand that USP teams knows that they will be weaken but do you think that UMR teams will be far stronger than now?
I play UMR, my UMR is higher than 61 and i don't have a single player with teamwork THAT high.
UMR teams usually have high stamina levels (because stamina is also used in UPM) and high off the ball level (useful against UZM and offside trap users) i cobsider that i have a good UMR level and i never considered it that important. My team has decent teamwork levels around 10 on midfielders) so i won't become into a nightmare to former USP teams. Please remember that teamwork will grant a "bonus" in all tactics, it won't have the same weight than creativity for instance.

The math stuff is somehow irrelevant: UZM always had less skills than UMM and nobody ever complained about it.
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Drifter

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Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
« Reply #70 on: August 29, 2013, 12:15:34 PM »
 ;) The key here is not to panic.  The Dev's have not added some feature to make all players without teamwork worthless.  People need to see how the change will effect their players before throwing out wild suggestions that involve sweeping changes to the way things are currently.
Change can be scary and often is annoying but often, change comes to fix an existing problem. Until we can see the change in action, we don't really know how it will ultimately effect play or the best solutions for solving any problems that might be found due to the change.
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Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
« Reply #71 on: August 29, 2013, 12:23:05 PM »
;) The key here is not to panic.  The Dev's have not added some feature to make all players without teamwork worthless.  People need to see how the change will effect their players before throwing out wild suggestions that involve sweeping changes to the way things are currently.
Change can be scary and often is annoying but often, change comes to fix an existing problem. Until we can see the change in action, we don't really know how it will ultimately effect play or the best solutions for solving any problems that might be found due to the change.

EXACTLY!!!

For UZM teams, teamwork was a "secondary skill" somehow because UMR aside, it was useless in all the other combinations, and if i would have raised a USP team, i surely would've considered creativity as secondary (i would have focused in passing maybe) for UMR teams, teamwork was only used to improve UMR, what else does creativity increase in USP teams?
With all respect, i think you guys gave too much attention to creativity in the first place, much more than you should.
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GillBate

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Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
« Reply #72 on: August 29, 2013, 01:27:18 PM »
;) The key here is not to panic.  The Dev's have not added some feature to make all players without teamwork worthless.  People need to see how the change will effect their players before throwing out wild suggestions that involve sweeping changes to the way things are currently.
Change can be scary and often is annoying but often, change comes to fix an existing problem. Until we can see the change in action, we don't really know how it will ultimately effect play or the best solutions for solving any problems that might be found due to the change.

Cool guy. My friend just paranoid and want me fight for USP, Hahaha  :P
Admin should show statics of all players how much players got Teamwork 1-20. :)

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Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
« Reply #73 on: August 29, 2013, 01:28:03 PM »
Quote from: Game Manual
Factors affecting ball possession.

1. Team formation affects ball possession - Attacking formations tend to let your team have more ball possession than defensive formations.Midfielder is the position that affects ball possession the most. However, having too many midfielders isn't a good idea.

2. Ability of all players except the goalkeeper.

3. Advantage of home game (only for league competitions)

4. Team tactics that have influence on ball possession.

    4.1 Strategy - Has great impact on ball possession. Attacking strategy increases the team chance ofcreating an opportunity to attack. While on the other hand, defensive strategy decreases this opportunity on both sides.

    4.2 Defensive Line - Push up defensive line increases the opportunity of building an attack from the back, whereas deep defensive line decreases this opportunity.

    4.3 Creative Freedom - Increases your ball possessions if your team has creative midfielders.

    4.4 Tackling - Hard tackling increases your ball possession. (Not much though)

    4.5 Marking - Using the right strategy increases your chances of winning possession of the ball.

From Quote

Creative is Factors affecting ball possession.

If in SS10 Teamwork is [Factors affecting ball possession] same Creative.

I agree it

BUT

Team work will now has an effect on all tactics of around 10% - 15%.

Quote from: Game manual Present
UZM = Acceleration, Positioning, Tackling
OZM = Acceleration, Off the ball, Passing

UMM = (Strength+Balance)/2, Marking, (Jumping+Heading)/2
OMM = (Strength+Balance)/2, Technique, (Jumping+Heading)/2

UPM = (Pace+Acceleration)/2, Stamina, Tackling
OPM = (Pace+Acceleration)/2, Aglilty, Technique

USM = (Strength+Balance)/2, Marking, Positioning
OSM = (Strength+Balance)/2, Off the ball, Passing

UMR = (Pace+Acceleration)/2, Stamina, Teamwork, Off the ball
OMR = (Pace+Acceleration)/2, Marking, Teamwork, Positioning

USP = (Strength+Balance)/2, Creativity, Technique, Passing
OSP = (Strength+Balance)/2, Decisions, Tackling, Marking

AND

Quote from: Game manual IN SS10
UZM = Acceleration, Positioning, Tackling, Teamwork10%-15%
OZM = Acceleration, Off the ball, Passing, Teamwork10%-15%

UMM = (Strength+Balance)/2, Marking, (Jumping+Heading)/2, Teamwork10%-15%
OMM = (Strength+Balance)/2, Technique, (Jumping+Heading)/2, Teamwork10%-15%

UPM = (Pace+Acceleration)/2, Stamina, Tackling, Teamwork10%-15%
OPM = (Pace+Acceleration)/2, Aglilty, Technique, Teamwork10%-15%

USM = (Strength+Balance)/2, Marking, Positioning, Teamwork10%-15%
OSM = (Strength+Balance)/2, Off the ball, Passing, Teamwork10%-15%

UMR = (Pace+Acceleration)/2, Stamina, Teamwork, Off the ball, Teamwork10%-15%
OMR = (Pace+Acceleration)/2, Marking, Teamwork, Positioning, Teamwork10%-15%

USP = (Strength+Balance)/2, Creativity, Technique, Passing, Teamwork10%-15%
OSP = (Strength+Balance)/2, Decisions, Tackling, Marking, Teamwork10%-15%

I can't Agree it.

I have train players for 3-4 seasons and you just change it with a few clicks? I want a re-assign skill button.

Hey Admin I think it very important. I lost time for this game have a lot. If you not interest it. I think me and a many manager will just leave this game because of developers who are obviously amateurs. 

Ruta

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Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
« Reply #74 on: August 29, 2013, 02:14:17 PM »
 IMHO to focus on  only one side is a wrong way. Even without changes at engine team with high USP can face team with higher ASP and loose. 
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