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General Category => General Discussion(English Only) => Topic started by: admin on August 14, 2013, 12:58:01 PM

Title: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
Post by: admin on August 14, 2013, 12:58:01 PM
Every positions apart from goalkeeper will affect every tactics.
Each position, of course, has different weight factors contributing to each tactics.
Team work will now has an effect on all tactics of around 10% - 15%.
Title: Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
Post by: Lo Zar on August 14, 2013, 01:07:53 PM
Sorry, could you explain better? Some of us are skilling youngsters, and we have to know clearly how to face this changes before it's too late!
Title: Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
Post by: dantes on August 14, 2013, 01:09:25 PM
People already trained  their players in the way they want so they fit in their tactics. This change will f*ck up everything. And come on, now we will need LA 10+ players on all positions to make them good enough to play in any tactics.
Title: Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
Post by: N-D-A-F on August 14, 2013, 01:10:11 PM
this is gonna happen on season 10 right?
Title: Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
Post by: newbie on August 14, 2013, 01:20:41 PM
i think  one day  GKO  will upgrade  match engine to   3.0 .

we must to prepare for it   

cuz  GKO must  go on.  that good than  stop upgrade anything.

i think i dont want to see match engine 2.0 on SS 20.

 :) :) :)



Title: Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
Post by: firecloud0102 on August 14, 2013, 01:24:03 PM
People already trained  their players in the way they want so they fit in their tactics. This change will f*ck up everything. And come on, now we will need LA 10+ players on all positions to make them good enough to play in any tactics.

I think the biggest change is that "team work" become more important..
and other changes maybe just a little. 
Title: Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
Post by: RayLei on August 14, 2013, 01:43:19 PM
Admin, please release a topic to explain the weight of skills affecting every tactics. we need a proper guidance for this change ASAP
Title: Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
Post by: Lo Zar on August 14, 2013, 01:46:03 PM
I think the biggest change is that "team work" become more important..

I'm not completely sure that "team work" means the skill "teamwork". Admin should explain.
Title: Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
Post by: Kr10s on August 14, 2013, 01:51:22 PM
This change will surely be unpleasant to many people, somebody pointed that GKO engine should keep improving, and i agree with that! However, this change will affect all teams, many teams will need to start over on their player's development, so it won't be an entirely popular change. My team won't be that affected, i play UMR when possible, so my team has decent teamwork rates mostly (i will need to work on my defenders, i don't use offside trap so i haven't worked on it that much).

However, i think that many people will apreciate other changes in the GKO engine, and those changes wouldn't affect our player's development.

Nobody would be angry if:

* Players could receive direct red card, specially against hard tackling teams.
* Corner kicks would happen if the keeper tip the ball away.
* Goals from second chances happen (player A shoots, Keeper saves without holding the  ball, player B shots after that keeper intervenction).
* Offside trap would be rebalanced (i am tired to see defenders failing into offside trap).
* Kicking ability should have a clear role in the engine: more ball posession maybe?
* Indirect free kicks, working similar than a corner kick.

Not to menction other things requested, such as a substitute player list.

But well, we have some time to be prepared.
Title: Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
Post by: dantes on August 14, 2013, 01:58:46 PM
It is not only teamwork, every position apart from goalkeeper will affect every tactics! I agree about teamwork, it should have more important role in tactics, but for example marking will be affected by FC skills?! Does it make any sense?
Title: Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
Post by: JoseMou on August 14, 2013, 02:02:27 PM
Hmm that will make game more complicated and interesting. Admin, we need comprehensive explanation. What will make the difference between 0 and 15 %, etc.
Title: Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
Post by: Lost ME on August 14, 2013, 02:18:15 PM
Team work will now has an effect on all tactics of around 0% - 15%.

No...... I play USP.   If you change teamwork. you must change creative too
Title: Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
Post by: SoLid_frOg on August 14, 2013, 03:09:28 PM
Can you show weight factors contributing to each tactics for each position ?
Title: Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
Post by: blahblah on August 14, 2013, 03:20:42 PM
This is getting far too complicated to be interesting, imho.....
Title: Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
Post by: nuerta on August 14, 2013, 03:39:56 PM
No problem, admin, but then you should reset whole game and give us new teams. What should I do with players who are already trained for my tactic?
Title: Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
Post by: dantes on August 14, 2013, 03:54:01 PM
If these changes happen this game has no future, that is for sure. First of all, it will be far too complicated to be interesting as some said before. I have never seen anything like this in any similar game before. You can not make changes like these, our players who are trained for tactics we use are going to become completely useless. Many managers will not start over, they will just leave this game because of developers who are obviously amateurs.
Title: Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
Post by: Karand United on August 14, 2013, 04:21:40 PM
I prefer very changs in GKO. The show must go on. Nothing changes for dead man. This rules not for someone but eveyone, so accept and keep wallk throuhg.
Title: Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
Post by: RayLei on August 14, 2013, 04:34:25 PM
There are too many shortages of current tactics system. An improvement of current tactics system is welcome although I can gain huge advantage with it. Good move, admin!!!!
Title: Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
Post by: ToTO on August 14, 2013, 05:17:49 PM
Still have 1 season or more than 120 days for training.   Before GKO changed new engine I knew that one day the newer change would come.  My old players will be useless in new engine.     This is the time to change. go go go. still have time. still have time.
Title: Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
Post by: Littmann on August 14, 2013, 05:54:05 PM
I support changes! Go Game Developers! Game must evolve sometimes,so if this is that time go for it! :) :D
Title: Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
Post by: admin on August 15, 2013, 02:52:54 AM
For each tactics, other unmentioned positions will has effect 50%-80% of the positions mentioned on the manual
depending on the tactics being used and the positions.
Title: Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
Post by: Kr10s on August 15, 2013, 02:56:06 AM
For each tactics, other unmentioned positions will has effect 50%-80% of the positions mentioned on the manual
depending on the tactics being used and the positions.

So, if my FC's UPM is around 60% of team's UPM, i won't suffer a level drop?
Title: Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
Post by: Lost ME on August 15, 2013, 03:03:41 AM
Team work will now has an effect on all tactics of around 10% - 15%.

What is Balance?

I use time = 4 SS to training my player in my team.

Tactic Attack my team is USP = (Strength+Balance)/2, Creativity, Technique, Passing

you can see. It's not use TEAMWORK .

BUT Tactic Attack UMR = (Pace+Acceleration)/2, Stamina, Teamwork, Off the ball . you can see. It's use TEAMWORK .

you can see in picture . This is a effect to my team

(http://www.mypicza.com/upload/a258806f7d9ebe82856383a3290ec393.jpg)

Sorry my English very bad
Title: Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
Post by: dantes on August 15, 2013, 03:36:28 AM
50-80% is too much, it means that FC will effect on marking for example 60% of effect which have DC. Ridiculous. 30-40 % would be acceptable.
Title: Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
Post by: admin on August 15, 2013, 03:54:35 AM
The information that I gave you can be changed. I will keep you guys posted.
Title: Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
Post by: RayLei on August 15, 2013, 04:04:28 AM
Please provide a proper guidance ASAP. If you can, give a detailed sample to explain how a rating of a particular tactic can be calculated
Title: Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
Post by: Fradel Rovajar on August 15, 2013, 07:31:56 AM
this is gonna happen on season 10 right?

Yes, it makes sense because it gives each team managers time to prepare and adjust the exercises of their teams. :)
Title: Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
Post by: fachrudin sheva on August 15, 2013, 12:07:23 PM
Great Admin! :) The Game Must Go On!
Title: Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
Post by: Kr10s on August 15, 2013, 06:12:25 PM
Admin, have you considered to increase the teamwork level on every single fully developed player?
I am aware that it won't be the perfect solution, because those who have high teamwork teams will remain their advantage, but it would make fully developed players usefull and it also would reduce the gap between small teams and teams with high LA youth players in development.

As i know, it's not the perfect solution, but i understand Lost ME's situation, and i would be really angry if the whole squad i developed turns useless so suddenly. Develop a player takes seasons, not a few weeks, and even if we are warned with some time to adapt ourselves, such a drastical change would ruin months invested in the game.

I do welcome every single upgrade that the game might receive, the new game design gave me some hope back about this game's long term success, but i am sure you will understand some people frustration, please be reasonable with them.
Title: Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
Post by: chefo on August 15, 2013, 07:23:57 PM
This change will only make the strong teams stronger. Nobody is gonna bother training Teamwork on players with or under 7 LA.

There are far better things to add/change as stated on the first topic page.
Title: Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
Post by: JoseMou on August 15, 2013, 08:03:33 PM
I don't think team work mean exactly skill "teamwork" may be that mean if we use any team tactics like marking, press, roaming, that will make 10-15% better/worse performance of team than if we use default team tactics, but admin must explain us. I said, that changes will make game more interesting and complicated. Now many managers need only good players and calculator, after that changes they will need more brain.
Title: Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
Post by: Drifter on August 15, 2013, 08:09:13 PM
 ;) Personally, I hope that admin continues with this change to total team involvement and especially with the idea about teamwork.  It isn't really realistic that teamwork should not effect all tactics.  To not use teamwork in this calculation is to throw the idea of a team working together out the door.  Teamwork should be an important factor and admins move to involve it more is a sign that they agree with this idea. 
 ::) Yes, this change will cause heartache for many managers, myself included.  Yet, it is logical in my opinion.  Just gives managers something new to think of.  Let's welcome the challenge and press forward into the new season.
Title: Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
Post by: Andy on August 15, 2013, 08:49:04 PM
Well said Drifter. I too will lose from this change but I support for the reasons you gave.

We all panic on this forum but seriously guys, I am not expecting my current players to suddenly become useless, just a bit less effective. Of course I may change my mind when / if we see the changes next season. In the meantime I am going to do some Team Work training but not lots - it may still not be worth it

 :)
Title: Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
Post by: marctiello on August 15, 2013, 09:55:27 PM
Hope that any change will be documented quite before being effective...just to give us enough time to be ready for it. Anyway, any change may move a league towards new equilibrium between teams and it is always good to put ourselves in new challenges to achieve the success.
BTW 90% of my players have teamwork less that 10 hahaha....it's time to train it hard  :'(
Title: Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
Post by: Kr10s on August 15, 2013, 10:21:51 PM
I agree with all of you that teamwork should be involved, i don't deny that at all! I am only pointing that this change will create a drastical gap between some teams and others!
I play UMR (UMR around C and C+, depending on my player's morale), my teamwork levels are not extremely high, but i think that i might be blessed with this change.

But what about USP teams?

I use time = 4 SS to training my player in my team.

Tactic Attack my team is USP = (Strength+Balance)/2, Creativity, Technique, Passing

you can see. It's not use TEAMWORK .

BUT Tactic Attack UMR = (Pace+Acceleration)/2, Stamina, Teamwork, Off the ball . you can see. It's use TEAMWORK .

you can see in picture . This is a effect to my team

(http://www.mypicza.com/upload/a258806f7d9ebe82856383a3290ec393.jpg)

Now, what can we do about these teams? Start over, create a new squad should be the right answer? I must remind you that this is not only about teamwork ability, this is also about experience, any team that start over will need at least 2 seasons to farm LA7 players, and their experience would be 3 at most, in the meantime, all UMR teams will remain their exp advantage, and the bigger experience, the better performance.

So yes, i agree with you that teamwork should be involved, but i also think that something must be done to make the transition easier to all, i gave an idea, if somebody else has something different to propose, please do it! Many people will apreciate that.
Title: Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
Post by: Andy on August 15, 2013, 11:05:15 PM
There is nothing wrong with your suggestion Carlos. You are kind to think of others when you are not affected yourself.

It would be nice if the developers will listen but I doubt it. I am in the same boat as Lost Me and we will suffer but hopefully we will not be doomed.
Title: Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
Post by: Brian Clough on August 16, 2013, 12:00:28 AM
I wonder how much impact creativity has when using the "more creative" creative freedom tactics setting compared with what teamwork will have with this new change?  Perhaps this change designed to balance an existing imbalance highly creative teams (that often use USP) has over less creative teams (that often use UMR). Also, perhaps this change should come with a new tactical setting that would instruct players to emphasize individual skill or teamwork (or default) in the same way creative freedom tactics currently work, but with teamwork.
Title: Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
Post by: admin on August 16, 2013, 02:11:46 AM
Teamwork means the skill "teamwork".

Guys, in my highly opinion, teamwork isn't everything. It only makes a team use tactics more
efficiently which in turns make the team has better opportunity for ball possession.

However, dominating possession doesn't always increase a team's chances of winning.
Individual footballing ability for each players is also important. It creates more opportunity to stop strikers, to dribble pass defenders,
to pass the ball well, to take good free-kicks, to find a opportunity to score, etc.

Every players have limited skill points so a manager should manage to train them wisely and efficiently.
Title: Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
Post by: Brian Clough on August 16, 2013, 03:23:23 AM
in short...the reason why QPR underachieves :P for those who follow English football  ;)
Title: Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
Post by: Lost ME on August 16, 2013, 03:51:35 AM
In season10

UMR will be better than USP.

Because UMR use teamwork

YES OR NO ?
Title: Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
Post by: สุดหล่อ on August 16, 2013, 04:01:09 AM
In season10

UMR will be better than USP.

Because UMR use teamwork

YES OR NO ?

I think yes.. ;)
Title: Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
Post by: Andy on August 16, 2013, 07:16:03 AM
In season10

UMR will be better than USP.

Because UMR use teamwork

YES OR NO ?

No. It still depends on your players skills and your other tactics. USP also uses accelleration which is great for Press More and numeous other situations.

But I agree More Roaming is about to get a whole lot better.

Title: Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
Post by: Aquilicua on August 16, 2013, 10:35:01 PM
Every positions apart from goalkeeper will affect every tactics.
Each position, of course, has different weight factors contributing to each tactics.
Team work will now has an effect on all tactics of around 10% - 15%.

I think the tactics will works in this way:

New tactic points = old tactic points x [(85 to 90)+((the weight of teamwork*)]%

*the weight of teamwork is a number between 0-10 or 0-15 (depending of the tactic).


It means if actually a team has 60 points in UZM, with the new system in the worst case will have 51 points ('15% with the worst teamwork possible). Is it correct?

It affects the tactic "creativity freedom" too? (is the tactic less explained of all... "the more, the better" but how much?)
Title: Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
Post by: dantes on August 17, 2013, 09:48:53 PM
I think the best solution would be when skill "teamwork" would be variable . In that system we could not train skill "teamwork". Level of teamwork would depend of many factors, for example how often player plays matches. So, player who start every game in first eleven, his teamwork would increase more after every match until he reaches maximum. When player plays less minutes or not playing at all, his teamwork would decrease. I think that would give to the game new dimension and make this game more dynamic, interesting and realistic. Also it would solve the problem already trained players who will soon become useless if you implement new system in season 10.
Title: Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
Post by: Kr10s on August 17, 2013, 10:00:49 PM
I think the best solution would be when skill "teamwork" would be variable . In that system we could not train skill "teamwork". Level of teamwork would depend of many factors, for example how often player plays matches. So, player who start every game in first eleven, his teamwork would increase more after every match until he reaches maximum. When player plays less minutes or not playing at all, his teamwork would decrease. I think that would give to the game new dimension and make this game more dynamic, interesting and realistic. Also it would solve the problem already trained players who will soon become useless if you implement new system in season 10.

+1!!!!!

Adaptation to the team should be a key factor to determinate that teamwork ability.

For now, when a player is not fully adapted, all his skills are reduced, i think that it would be reasonable if only those skills related with team duties would be involved, i mean, a player shouldn't reduce his dribbling ability, just because he is not fully adapted, i could understand that passing would reduce a little bit, but shooting or dribbling shouldn't.
Title: Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
Post by: Red on August 18, 2013, 02:31:59 AM
Agree with that but question is if it is realistic to implement right now for programmers with this engine.Anyway I think that as solution for many teams where top players are already train to high potential level should be implement small change to training system.Maybe when player reach his highest level and we set for example specific skill to train as teamwork he will learn that but other skills will drop down randomly according to benefit on that specific skill.Of course not all skills schould be able to impove this way.Same is in real world where players could focus on some skills but surly other ones will drop...
Title: Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
Post by: stefancachia on August 19, 2013, 02:24:54 PM
What happened to the Custom Cup the fixtures for tomorrow game have disappeared. the custom cup will still been playeed tomorrow?
Title: Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
Post by: Kr10s on August 19, 2013, 02:31:19 PM
What happened to the Custom Cup the fixtures for tomorrow game have disappeared. the custom cup will still been playeed tomorrow?

Maybe this thread isn't the place to ask for it, but still....

Don't worry, they hasn't dissapeared, the custom cup were created in season 8, so you can still find it on season 8 fixtures, you will have your match tomorrow.
Title: Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
Post by: SoLid_frOg on August 19, 2013, 02:42:54 PM
In season10

UMR will be better than USP.

Because UMR use teamwork

YES OR NO ?

USP got nerfed to the ground, that's all i can say.
Any tactic with teamwork will be the new meta.  :P
Title: Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
Post by: dantes on August 19, 2013, 02:43:43 PM
Admin, I think you should give as exact data about new system and changes in match engine so we can prepare our players during this season. And please, consider my suggestion about variable teamwork skill.
Title: Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
Post by: blahblah on August 19, 2013, 05:26:25 PM
UMR? USP?
Title: Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
Post by: Ruta on August 19, 2013, 06:59:15 PM
UMR? USP?
Use More Roaming and Use Stick To Position
Title: Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
Post by: blahblah on August 20, 2013, 08:50:26 AM
Ah, thanks, the U's confused me...
Title: Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
Post by: คนจริง on August 21, 2013, 04:41:43 AM
Most players in my team have teamwork less than 10

 :o :'(
Title: Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
Post by: Brian Clough on August 21, 2013, 05:20:57 AM
I think this change merely balances the effects of high creativity. Currently, a high creativity midfield can provide a bonus to tactical efficiency, which gives a slight bonus for teams using USP since creativity is part of that tactic. I think this change makes teamwork equally important as creativity, nothing more.
Title: Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
Post by: florinsteaua on August 21, 2013, 08:15:14 AM
I think this change merely balances the effects of high creativity. Currently, a high creativity midfield can provide a bonus to tactical efficiency, which gives a slight bonus for teams using USP since creativity is part of that tactic. I think this change makes teamwork equally important as creativity, nothing more.

i totally agree with you...i'm sure that Dev doesn't bring in this new changes to advantage some tactits...it brings in only to rebalance something
soo keep up the good work...i entirely suport this change :)
Title: Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
Post by: BirthSuper4 on August 29, 2013, 02:38:41 AM
I have one idea..

Cut off Teamwork out from Use more roaming. And Cut off creative out from Use stick to position.

 :-X



Title: Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
Post by: GillBate on August 29, 2013, 03:19:45 AM
Where does TEAMWORK come from in reality football?
I am sure it come from players who train together with teammate.
Will you get teamwork when you train in the bathroom alone? NO!
Who has TEAMWORK 20 will play well along with all teammates who have TEAMWORK 1? NO!

TEAMWORK is not Individual skill but TEAM SKILL!
The word "teamwork" has evidence itself as TEAM SKILL!

WE HAVE TO TRAIN TEAMWORK WITH 2 PLAYERS+
Teamwork must be increased to all of them in reality.
e.g. If they are training passing technique together, all of them should gain passing skill and teamwork.

Let think as you are playing real football.
If you play 4-4-2 style as main formation for years and one day manager suddenly change to 4-1-2-3 or something.
You always pass to the space where your teammate were and checkmate the goal.
How can it work when we change formation 1 minute before "Match is Processing"?

REALLY TEAMWORK WORKs?

Then, I will talk about UMR and USP, the most effective change.
If teamwork provide more accurate of passing. How about the ultimate accurate passing but stupid?
Yes, it was intercepted.
As I said earlier, TEAMWORK is not individual skill!
So, It can not count as BRAIN of players but CREATIVE.
CREATIVE seems to be the only one skill that is intelligent factor of players.
I accept TEAMWORK to effect defenders because their duty is DEFENSE but creating any chances.
AS creating chances of the game MC/LR AMC/LR FC/LR MUST use creative.

In my opinion, MC/LR AMC/LR FC/LR MUST be effected in new engine with (Creative+Teamwork)/2.

IS IT MORE FAIRER?
Title: Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
Post by: Drifter on August 29, 2013, 04:04:09 AM
I disagree.  The ability to play with a team is indeed an individual skill. When we look at different players, we find that some easily fit into many systems of play. Some have the ability to enter a team and make an immediate impact on the way that team plays. Some players are good at doing the kinds of things that a team needs to do to win. These things may not include scoring or defending. Covering other positions when a player advances forward or making a critical foul is an example of how a player can act for the team.
 ::) I think back on how Suarez stopped a goal with his hand and was sent from the game in the world cup. This was not a team effort even though his actions ultimately benefited the team.
 :( There are also other players that seem to just cause decent where ever they play. There is always a scandal surrounding them.  They don't get on well with other players, are selfish or just don't seem to fit in even with exceptional skill. These kinds of players are more focus on their efforts and less focused on working with the team to win.
 ;)
Teamwork is a team skill, but it is an individual skill as well. It is a players ability to work with others and it should have an overall effect on that players ability to play.
I also believe that teamwork should be calculated as a team score. I think in this way, teamwork not only effects individual play, but team play overall.
Title: Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
Post by: Kr10s on August 29, 2013, 04:08:07 AM
I accept TEAMWORK to effect defenders because their duty is DEFENSE but creating any chances.
AS creating chances of the game MC/LR AMC/LR FC/LR MUST use creative.

First of all, i don't consider teamwork as a "defensive" skill alone:

* It can be related to a player's passing rate, some players pass the ball often, others tries to dribble as many players as possible, trying to finish a chance on their own. As Drifter said, teamwork IS also an individual skill.
* It can be considered with "off the ball" ability as a team move: Some players do off the ball run to clear some spaces or taking oponent players with them, leaving empty spaces to his teammates.

Now, do you say that teams MUST use creativity, i am not so sure about that:

Many teams plays with many tactical moves previously trained, they don't need a creative player to be lethal, other teams focuses their attacking moves in playmakers, those teams surely needs creative players.
For instance, you couldn't say that Real Madrid and Barcelona played the same last season, and their playing styles are completely different:

* Real Madrid played a direct playingstyle (mostly effective in counter attack moves) using Ronaldo, Di María and Higuaín doing as many off the ball moves as possible, with deep passing to open spaces.
* Barcelona played something completely different: Ball possesion maxed, with 2 playmakers defined (Xavi and Iniesta, and Messi as a third sometimes) trying to create the scoring chance on their passing and trying to take advantage on opponent's moves.

If you go further, last UCL Champion (Bayern Munich) was not a very creative team, they were a smooth machine, filled with many team moves that are not entirely related to creativity (such as off the ball or pick and roll moves), will you tell me they lacked teamwork?

Now, you might like how each team played or not, but all those teams played at a very a high teamwork level.

To me, creativity should be mostly effective against teams packed behind and not that effective against teams playing attacking formations: Last season, Real Madrid had many trouble against teams packed behind, mostly because their only "high creativity player" were inconsistent (Ozil), Barcelona always managed themselves far easier against those teams.
Now, when oponent team plays attacking, you don't need to be that creative, empty spaces to lift a deep ball are a lot easier to find after all.

That should be creativity's real use IMO.....
Title: Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
Post by: Lost ME on August 29, 2013, 04:40:25 AM
I agree with. (Creative + Teamwork) / 2.

If you have a team and willing to do anything.  But you no have brain. It was not successful

Same as If you have Teamwork But you no have Creative.
Title: Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
Post by: GillBate on August 29, 2013, 05:15:41 AM
We talk about human. Forget about Bacelona, they are aliens. hahaha joking but They really have been calling as alien team in Thai media.  :P
Title: Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
Post by: HSTEHSTE on August 29, 2013, 05:25:11 AM
Same thing with Chinese media. The problem I would like to address is that teamwork cannot be trained with the absence of decisions unless trained specifically. As far as I know decisions has little or no use except in defending and offside creating. How then can we train low PR attacking players? Or is my perception of decisions wrong?
Title: Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
Post by: GillBate on August 29, 2013, 05:57:43 AM
I want to say first that this is a GAME, not real football. There are many factors in real football but GKO does not have.
So, we have to use WHAT GKO have. I did not consider TEAMWORK as defending skill alone too.
I just following admin as teamwork will effect more in new engine.

If you pass to open space to teammate but he does not run to get the ball. Is teamwork successful?
It's like you crap your hands. Ok, let's do team work by craping only one hand.

I am talking about solution in UMR and USP conflict. I admit that you know about football more than me.
I study computer engineering, I think about the code and possible calculating as programer.

The point is UMR managers train Teamwork a lot but creative, and USP managers train Creative a lot but Teamwork.
Each manager focus about their tactic. As the other skill can not be used in tactic, they will not train.
Real game may be like this

UMR : Creative = 3, Teamwork = 15
USP : Creative = 15, Teamwork = 3

it's Win-Win solution to use (Creative + Teamwork) / 2.
If you do not think Creative that equally important as team work, change the display name of "creative" then, variable is still the same and work.
Just rename "Creative" if you do not like it or disagree. I mention to solve the conflict.
Title: Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
Post by: GillBate on August 29, 2013, 06:23:28 AM
Just rename "Creative" to "Offensive teamwork" and "teamwork" to "Defensive teamwork" So, they are both teamwork then (O.Teamwork + D.teamwork)/2 = teamwork. Perfect! Hahaha :P
Title: Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
Post by: Rincewind on August 29, 2013, 07:53:24 AM
Will "teamwork" ability affect every tactics only through your own players or both own and opposite players?
Title: Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
Post by: GillBate on August 29, 2013, 08:21:45 AM
What will new engine do? (Total of Teamwork) / 10 ?
Title: Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
Post by: Nory Levi on August 29, 2013, 10:44:09 AM
Most of players have low team work rating because it wasn't important in the past
Title: Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
Post by: GillBate on August 29, 2013, 11:25:33 AM
 ;) Let's do a math.

UMR = (Pace+Acceleration)/2, Stamina, Teamwork, Off the ball
USP = (Strength+Balance)/2, Creativity, Technique, Passing (New SS, +Teamwork)

Next season, USP have to train one more skill "Teamwork".
All team who use USP which reached LA will get problems, big problems!

UMR has to train 5 skills while USP have to train 6 skills.
Almost UMR players may have high teamwork which get more and more advantage if it effects all action.

As the point of UMR and USP. They have not got equally number of skills.
To balance this, Teamwork on UMR must be half.
e.g. Teamwork = 20, when use USP Teamwork = 20, when use UMR Teamwork = 10.
If developer make Teamwork more important or VIP to every actions then decrease Teamwork of UMR by 3x or 4x in return.

Are you guys USP manager satisfied with this?
Title: Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
Post by: Kr10s on August 29, 2013, 11:58:25 AM
I understand that USP teams knows that they will be weaken but do you think that UMR teams will be far stronger than now?
I play UMR, my UMR is higher than 61 and i don't have a single player with teamwork THAT high.
UMR teams usually have high stamina levels (because stamina is also used in UPM) and high off the ball level (useful against UZM and offside trap users) i cobsider that i have a good UMR level and i never considered it that important. My team has decent teamwork levels around 10 on midfielders) so i won't become into a nightmare to former USP teams. Please remember that teamwork will grant a "bonus" in all tactics, it won't have the same weight than creativity for instance.

The math stuff is somehow irrelevant: UZM always had less skills than UMM and nobody ever complained about it.
Title: Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
Post by: Drifter on August 29, 2013, 12:15:34 PM
 ;) The key here is not to panic.  The Dev's have not added some feature to make all players without teamwork worthless.  People need to see how the change will effect their players before throwing out wild suggestions that involve sweeping changes to the way things are currently.
Change can be scary and often is annoying but often, change comes to fix an existing problem. Until we can see the change in action, we don't really know how it will ultimately effect play or the best solutions for solving any problems that might be found due to the change.
Title: Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
Post by: Kr10s on August 29, 2013, 12:23:05 PM
;) The key here is not to panic.  The Dev's have not added some feature to make all players without teamwork worthless.  People need to see how the change will effect their players before throwing out wild suggestions that involve sweeping changes to the way things are currently.
Change can be scary and often is annoying but often, change comes to fix an existing problem. Until we can see the change in action, we don't really know how it will ultimately effect play or the best solutions for solving any problems that might be found due to the change.

EXACTLY!!!

For UZM teams, teamwork was a "secondary skill" somehow because UMR aside, it was useless in all the other combinations, and if i would have raised a USP team, i surely would've considered creativity as secondary (i would have focused in passing maybe) for UMR teams, teamwork was only used to improve UMR, what else does creativity increase in USP teams?
With all respect, i think you guys gave too much attention to creativity in the first place, much more than you should.
Title: Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
Post by: GillBate on August 29, 2013, 01:27:18 PM
;) The key here is not to panic.  The Dev's have not added some feature to make all players without teamwork worthless.  People need to see how the change will effect their players before throwing out wild suggestions that involve sweeping changes to the way things are currently.
Change can be scary and often is annoying but often, change comes to fix an existing problem. Until we can see the change in action, we don't really know how it will ultimately effect play or the best solutions for solving any problems that might be found due to the change.

Cool guy. My friend just paranoid and want me fight for USP, Hahaha  :P
Admin should show statics of all players how much players got Teamwork 1-20. :)
Title: Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
Post by: Lost ME on August 29, 2013, 01:28:03 PM
Quote from: Game Manual
Factors affecting ball possession.

1. Team formation affects ball possession - Attacking formations tend to let your team have more ball possession than defensive formations.Midfielder is the position that affects ball possession the most. However, having too many midfielders isn't a good idea.

2. Ability of all players except the goalkeeper.

3. Advantage of home game (only for league competitions)

4. Team tactics that have influence on ball possession.

    4.1 Strategy - Has great impact on ball possession. Attacking strategy increases the team chance ofcreating an opportunity to attack. While on the other hand, defensive strategy decreases this opportunity on both sides.

    4.2 Defensive Line - Push up defensive line increases the opportunity of building an attack from the back, whereas deep defensive line decreases this opportunity.

    4.3 Creative Freedom - Increases your ball possessions if your team has creative midfielders.

    4.4 Tackling - Hard tackling increases your ball possession. (Not much though)

    4.5 Marking - Using the right strategy increases your chances of winning possession of the ball.

From Quote

Creative is Factors affecting ball possession.

If in SS10 Teamwork is [Factors affecting ball possession] same Creative.

I agree it

BUT

Team work will now has an effect on all tactics of around 10% - 15%.

Quote from: Game manual Present
UZM = Acceleration, Positioning, Tackling
OZM = Acceleration, Off the ball, Passing

UMM = (Strength+Balance)/2, Marking, (Jumping+Heading)/2
OMM = (Strength+Balance)/2, Technique, (Jumping+Heading)/2

UPM = (Pace+Acceleration)/2, Stamina, Tackling
OPM = (Pace+Acceleration)/2, Aglilty, Technique

USM = (Strength+Balance)/2, Marking, Positioning
OSM = (Strength+Balance)/2, Off the ball, Passing

UMR = (Pace+Acceleration)/2, Stamina, Teamwork, Off the ball
OMR = (Pace+Acceleration)/2, Marking, Teamwork, Positioning

USP = (Strength+Balance)/2, Creativity, Technique, Passing
OSP = (Strength+Balance)/2, Decisions, Tackling, Marking

AND

Quote from: Game manual IN SS10
UZM = Acceleration, Positioning, Tackling, Teamwork10%-15%
OZM = Acceleration, Off the ball, Passing, Teamwork10%-15%

UMM = (Strength+Balance)/2, Marking, (Jumping+Heading)/2, Teamwork10%-15%
OMM = (Strength+Balance)/2, Technique, (Jumping+Heading)/2, Teamwork10%-15%

UPM = (Pace+Acceleration)/2, Stamina, Tackling, Teamwork10%-15%
OPM = (Pace+Acceleration)/2, Aglilty, Technique, Teamwork10%-15%

USM = (Strength+Balance)/2, Marking, Positioning, Teamwork10%-15%
OSM = (Strength+Balance)/2, Off the ball, Passing, Teamwork10%-15%

UMR = (Pace+Acceleration)/2, Stamina, Teamwork, Off the ball, Teamwork10%-15%
OMR = (Pace+Acceleration)/2, Marking, Teamwork, Positioning, Teamwork10%-15%

USP = (Strength+Balance)/2, Creativity, Technique, Passing, Teamwork10%-15%
OSP = (Strength+Balance)/2, Decisions, Tackling, Marking, Teamwork10%-15%

I can't Agree it.

I have train players for 3-4 seasons and you just change it with a few clicks? I want a re-assign skill button.

Hey Admin I think it very important. I lost time for this game have a lot. If you not interest it. I think me and a many manager will just leave this game because of developers who are obviously amateurs. 
Title: Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
Post by: Ruta on August 29, 2013, 02:14:17 PM
 IMHO to focus on  only one side is a wrong way. Even without changes at engine team with high USP can face team with higher ASP and loose. 
Title: Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
Post by: GillBate on August 30, 2013, 01:29:04 AM
 :)I have new idea!

According to admin, he said Teamwork's result is gaining more possession in new engine.
Focus this point, POSSESSION.

As I said about teamwork earlier, If we pass the ball to open space but our teammate does not run for it.
Teamwork is unsuccessful. If you set Press More tactic but players do not run for it. Teamwork is unsuccessful.
If I have Teamwork 20 but lazy, possession can not be good.

I think the key of possession is WORK RATE.
Just random add new skill "Workrate" to all players at range 5-15 next season.
I think this is fair, more balance and realistic.
Should this solve?
Title: Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
Post by: Kr10s on August 30, 2013, 01:40:15 AM
:)I have new idea!

According to admin, he said Teamwork's result is gaining more possession in new engine.
Focus this point, POSSESSION.

As I said about teamwork earlier, If we pass the ball to open space but our teammate does not run for it.
Teamwork is unsuccessful. If you set Press More tactic but players do not run for it. Teamwork is unsuccessful.
If I have Teamwork 20 but lazy, possession can not be good.

I think the key of possession is WORK RATE.
Just random add new skill "Workrate" to all players at range 5-15 next season.
I think this is fair, more balance and realistic.
Should this solve?

Aggression is somehow related with work rate, still, i like your idea  :)
Title: Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
Post by: Nory Levi on August 30, 2013, 01:26:19 PM
 8) 8) Tiki Taka on the way  :D :D
Title: Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
Post by: stefancachia on August 31, 2013, 07:19:14 AM
in the new match engine i want changes in the tactic system

for example, i am loosing in the game, and i want to replace a defender with an extra attacker, and the attacker will play in front with the other attackers, and not play as a defender.

please can someone tell me if this will be fixed in the new match engine
Title: Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
Post by: csumar on September 07, 2013, 05:31:59 PM
thanks for post
Title: Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
Post by: Drifter on September 07, 2013, 07:30:47 PM
 :D I think many players would like to see positional changes in the game where you can sub out one kind of player for a different kind. MC for AMC for example. Players would like to see these kinds of changes as well as being able to change a players position on the field without subbing him off the field... like making a DMC suddenly an extra DC or MC.  That would be nice.
Title: Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
Post by: Aquilicua on December 01, 2013, 08:19:18 PM
Admin, when new information about changes in season 10?
Title: Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
Post by: Sopelana on December 02, 2013, 12:20:56 PM
Admin, when new information about changes in season 10?

Yeahh, and about many more things (like youths camps, when season 10 will begin...)
Title: Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
Post by: uLtRaSpYnAlL on December 02, 2013, 12:50:11 PM
no admin,they forgot us :))))))
Title: Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
Post by: panjcof on December 04, 2013, 11:14:17 AM
Does anyone know when is the new seson starting???
Title: Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
Post by: Sopelana on December 04, 2013, 11:32:32 AM
Does anyone know when is the new seson starting???

This is the one millon dollar question... This question does not even know the administrator!!.
Title: Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
Post by: lordaust on August 18, 2015, 01:23:50 PM
Why did I even get my hopes up...
Title: Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
Post by: birisi on November 26, 2015, 05:18:31 PM
what you guys talking about ?last 2 or more years there is no update inb game so there is no more dev team just game is going. dont wait something new :(
Title: Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
Post by: lordaust on June 22, 2017, 10:32:23 AM
Dear Admin:
I think the MOTS is too weak. Using Mots should be like, very decicive. If you have a team with a team level 50 its nearly impossible to beat a highly skilled team around 900. You have to have a team of at least 150. I think ALL teams should using MOTS beat any other team, even if they have no manager and only crap players. Please buff MOTS even further. Thank you. </end-irony>
Title: Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
Post by: tucko89 on June 22, 2017, 10:26:56 PM
Dear Admin:
I think the MOTS is too weak. Using Mots should be like, very decicive. If you have a team with a team level 50 its nearly impossible to beat a highly skilled team around 900. You have to have a team of at least 150. I think ALL teams should using MOTS beat any other team, even if they have no manager and only crap players. Please buff MOTS even further. Thank you. </end-irony>

You forgot the opening tag :D

Dear Admin:
<irony>I think the MOTS is too weak. Using Mots should be like, very decicive. If you have a team with a team level 50 its nearly impossible to beat a highly skilled team around 900. You have to have a team of at least 150. I think ALL teams should using MOTS beat any other team, even if they have no manager and only crap players. Please buff MOTS even further. Thank you. </irony>
Title: Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
Post by: lordaust on June 22, 2017, 10:33:26 PM
No, I left it out.
Gotta bait the haters just a little. :)
Title: Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
Post by: Harper on July 26, 2017, 08:44:25 PM
Ruta paid 100000$ (stolen from poor children) to get extra MOTSes. That's why he is winning so often, because he can use it for every match. Even friendlies...
Title: Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
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Title: Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
Post by: BAKH on November 12, 2018, 05:54:17 PM
I bought premium and don't understand how this sheets work? I have 484 UZM level, my opponent for the cup today have OZM D (well, it was a bot team). So, D is 47-52, right? So, 47-52 x 10 players = 470-520 level. So, it should be 50:50 but I got 4 blue arrows, lol ::)
Title: Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
Post by: BAKH on December 16, 2018, 11:51:23 PM
I bought premium and don't understand how this sheets work? I have 484 UZM level, my opponent for the cup today have OZM D (well, it was a bot team). So, D is 47-52, right? So, 47-52 x 10 players = 470-520 level. So, it should be 50:50 but I got 4 blue arrows, lol ::)
Please someone to explain me, I don't unerstand and don't understand how this sheets work :-X
Title: Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
Post by: mihut on December 17, 2018, 01:00:09 AM
It's a weighed average. Red is 0.5, orange is 0.8 and green is 1.
You add, according to your lineup, you get a number, for example 7.6, then divide 484 to 7.6 and get 63.6. That is C+
Title: Re: Gokickoff match engine balance season 10
Post by: BAKH on January 09, 2019, 05:59:28 PM
It's a weighed average. Red is 0.5, orange is 0.8 and green is 1.
You add, according to your lineup, you get a number, for example 7.6, then divide 484 to 7.6 and get 63.6. That is C+
Thanks!