Author Topic: possibility of say not to go to the national teams (Read 5425 times)

Ologga · « **on:** January 03, 2014, 12:49:39 PM »

The owner of a player must have the possibility of decide if a player goes to the National Team or not bur ONLY IF THAT PLAYER HAS NEVER PLAYED IN THE NATIONAL TEAM. In other words, before the 1st cap, the owner can decide if the player goes to the National team or not.

What do we get with this? Easy. If a National coach doesn’t want to help to the development of a player, the owner can decide if he let him to the NT when he is formed. When a player is full trained it is not such interesting to let him to the Nationals, injury risk, get tired (for no premium users the fatigue is a big problem), … If the player has played an only match with the National Team, the National coach can call him always he want without restrictions because is considered that the player has obtained a benefit in training from the National team. This possibility will regulate a little bit this situation. I hope the concept is well explained.

Of course Admin won’t take it in consideration as hundred of proposals said during last seasons.

leonhart · « **Reply #1 on:** January 04, 2014, 06:11:20 PM »

I'm sorry, but in my opinion, it's big nonsense. Even in the real world, the (almost) same problems have existed, but rejection of NT call up never happen in real world (as long as the NT plays in official FM, moreover for tournament matches). It's unfair and probably will be a lot of misused especially when the players play for club in other country

Kr10s · « **Reply #2 on:** January 04, 2014, 08:17:19 PM »

Quote from: leonhart on January 04, 2014, 06:11:20 PM

but rejection of NT call up never happen in real world

Then tell me why Mauro Icardi didn't play FIFA U20 World Cup when he was playing for Sampdoria

marctiello · « **Reply #3 on:** January 04, 2014, 08:28:28 PM »

In my opinion, at least for friendly matches, the club manager should set up a maximum played time for his player in the national selection match. And of course unlimited substitutions will permit to change even 11 players in the friendly. This idea need mandatory improvements, i know, but this is just the concept....

Brian Clough · « **Reply #4 on:** January 05, 2014, 01:27:08 AM »

Quote from: CarlosT on January 04, 2014, 08:17:19 PM

Quote from: leonhart on January 04, 2014, 06:11:20 PM
but rejection of NT call up never happen in real world

Then tell me why Mauro Icardi didn't play FIFA U20 World Cup when he was playing for Sampdoria

I don't know the details of this. Was there some influence by the Sampadoria management? Maybe ensuring he wasn't injured when they sold him? $:-\$

leonhart · « **Reply #5 on:** January 05, 2014, 01:58:43 AM »

Carlos, there's no way for rejecting NT call up in formal way. But like Brian said, maybe samp management successfully convinced AFA to not calling him for some reason. On the other word, there's no formal rules that say a club can reject NT call up, but for sure, there are a lot of informal negotiation between club management and NT coach to not calling (or even to calling) some important players. So, if u want ur player don't get any NT call up, try to negotiate with the NT coach

I know that one big problem still exist, some of NT coach is BOT

Kr10s · « **Reply #6 on:** January 05, 2014, 03:35:20 AM »

Actually, some issues happens between Club and NT, Sampdoria rejected to send Mauro Icardi to play the "Sudamericano Sub20" tournament (something similar than WC Qualifyings, but in U20 level) and the reason is simple: despite those competitions are the previous step to an official FIFA competition, those tournaments aren't organized by the FIFA so clubs CAN deny their players to play.

In 2013, Argentina couldn't use Mauro Icardi, Juan Iturbe and Paulo Dybala to play in the Sudamericano Sub20 (organized by the Conmebol), Chile had similar issues with Angelo Henríquez and Bryan Rabello (source, in spanish: http://www.ole.com.ar/seleccion/FIFA-patea_0_844715538.html).

The AFA had some issues with Barcelona when Messi was a young kid too, Argentina called him to play the Olympic Games in Pekin, 2008. Barcelona rejected to send him initially, the discussion ended when the TAS said that the player had to return to Barcelona, BUT Guardiola allowed Messi to stay with the NT (source, again in spanish: http://archivo.lavoz.com.ar/08/08/06/secciones/deportes/nota.asp?nota_id=228538)

As you can see, clubs actually CAN reject to send players to NT sometimes, at least to non official FIFA matches. However as U21 manager, i must say that if something like this happens in GKO, it will be a big trouble source for us.

Brian Clough · « **Reply #7 on:** January 05, 2014, 04:42:37 AM »

thanks carlos!

Why not let managers hold on to their players if they really want during friendly seasons. However, doing so should allow the NT manager view their skill sheets at their leisure, for planning purposes.

During World Cup seasons, however, this should not be an option.

Kr10s · « **Reply #8 on:** January 05, 2014, 05:13:13 AM »

Quote from: leonhart on January 05, 2014, 01:58:43 AM

So, if u want ur player don't get any NT call up, try to negotiate with the NT coach
I know that one big problem still exist, some of NT coach is BOT

Sorry dude, you picked the wrong manager to preach. I actually offer my players to NT managers, sometimes i spend my resources to have them fit if NT manager needs them, also you can ask any manager how i handle NTs: i am always opened to discuss, never play hard tackling, i think that relationship between Argentina NTs and club managers is really good.

I just pointed that player can be refused to play sometimes.

And, as i said before, if managers can refuse to send players to the NT, it will be a huge problem source for NT managers.

leonhart · « **Reply #9 on:** January 05, 2014, 08:39:37 AM »

After reading Carlos' reply, I think that we have same opinion. As I said before that the only chance to rejected NT if the match or tournament isn't official (in other words, match that not organized by FIFA). I didn't know exactly bout the Icardi's case before, so thanks for ur explanation, and again, it's clear that samp restrict Icardi because the tournament wasn't official, not organized by FIFA.

Anyway, I never meant to preach you, Carlos. U're one of senior member here, and one of best mod IMO. I just give opinion that the possibility of reject NT like Oberstdorf's suggestion will make a big problem, so the only way to restrict ur player from NT is by negotiate with the NT coach. We have the almost same opinon, rite?

Kr10s · « **Reply #10 on:** January 05, 2014, 01:24:36 PM »

Yeah, we think the same, more or less

However, i do understand Oberstdorf's request, specially when we speak about friendly matches. Some NTs plays friendly matches with the same intensity than the WC final and i think he's angry because he had to deal many times with unnecesary injuries in friendly matches, some of them before an important match.

And yes, i know, you can discuss with the NT manager, but if that manager is not opened to discuss and he only cares winning, there is a problem there, something similar happens with this situation:

Quote

I know that one big problem still exist, some of NT coach is BOT

As you pointed, some managers are bot, what can you do to avoid an unnecesary butchery if a bot manager picks a player that belongs to you?

I think that is the main reason behind Oberstorf's suggestion, that's all.

Sopelana · « **Reply #11 on:** January 05, 2014, 08:44:10 PM »

This has been discussed before. I remenber I spoke about it on a post, long time ago.

For me, team manager should decide if the player goes or not to NT. Not only for first time.

Maybe is a problem for some NT, but in my opinion law should defend to the club. I mean, sometimes, NT doesnt help you to improve your player, calling the most value players on friendlies or using his own players to his benefit, or use friends players, or he doesn't take the new youngs from camps (but then, when the club make he play a lot to improve they want to call the player) or play with hard tackling in friendlies. So for all this reason, IMHO, team coach should have the faculty of decide.

In real world, some players have said no to NT. In Spain, we have the case of Oleguer, he said no to NT because he feels from Catalunya and not from Spain. But there are more cases round all over the world. Puyol, for example, said to NT no because of the age, he has too much injuries, and he cant play so much matches. In real world a player, could decide, here, we ( the team coach) are the voice of the player, so I'm agree with Luiggi (but for all the matches, without restrictions).

Aquilicua · « **Reply #12 on:** January 05, 2014, 10:36:43 PM »

In real life, you know, is the PLAYER like Oleguer that say no to NT, but here you are talking that the was the manager who decide.

In Spain NT, most of the players are for 2 managers (like you know) and if the 2 managers don't want to leave their players, 8-10 players can't be convocated. It is not real... Barça and Madrid, would like to decide but is the player who decide not the club. And in GKO the player can't decide...

I understand the problem, but is the same for all the managers with players in NT. Maybe the problem are the injuries and the decrease in fitness.

Sopelana · « **Reply #13 on:** January 05, 2014, 11:00:16 PM »

Quote from: Aquilicua on January 05, 2014, 10:36:43 PM

In real life, you know, is the PLAYER like Oleguer that say no to NT, but here you are talking that the was the manager who decide.

In Spain NT, most of the players are for 2 managers (like you know) and if the 2 managers don't want to leave their players, 8-10 players can't be convocated. It is not real... Barça and Madrid, would like to decide but is the player who decide not the club. And in GKO the player can't decide...

I understand the problem, but is the same for all the managers with players in NT. Maybe the problem are the injuries and the decrease in fitness.

Like I said, the voice of the player are the users. In real life, players could chose the offer most interesting for they (like team, country... ) not only the money like in this game.

I understand that a coach get ungry with a NT manager, there are many reasons:

- If the NT coach plays usually in friendlies with hard tackling. Why I should have an injury of 32 days (for example) for that?

- I got players from the young camp 10/4, and a NT coach doesn't help me to train him, why I must let my player when he is done?. Many nations don't play with high LA players. In Spain for example, Matthews and you put most high value player, I would understand to a team like the one who got one 11/4 (our best player) from youth camp doesn't want to let us when he is done.

There are more, but for me, these are the most importants.

panjcof · « **Reply #14 on:** January 06, 2014, 12:38:53 PM »

Well who doesn't want his players play for the national team? There are many advantages for both player and the manager have benefited from this...

Ologga · « **Reply #15 on:** January 06, 2014, 03:52:42 PM »

Quote from: Sopelana on January 05, 2014, 08:44:10 PM

This has been discussed before. I remenber I spoke about it on a post, long time ago.

For me, team manager should decide if the player goes or not to NT. Not only for first time.

Maybe is a problem for some NT, but in my opinion law should defend to the club. I mean, sometimes, NT doesnt help you to improve your player, calling the most value players on friendlies or using his own players to his benefit, or use friends players, or he doesn't take the new youngs from camps (but then, when the club make he play a lot to improve they want to call the player) or play with hard tackling in friendlies. So for all this reason, IMHO, team coach should have the faculty of decide.

In real world, some players have said no to NT. In Spain, we have the case of Oleguer, he said no to NT because he feels from Catalunya and not from Spain. But there are more cases round all over the world. Puyol, for example, said to NT no because of the age, he has too much injuries, and he cant play so much matches. In real world a player, could decide, here, we ( the team coach) are the voice of the player, so I'm agree with Luiggi (but for all the matches, without restrictions).

For 1st time in a long time I agree in something with sopelana because he has explained better my post, more and less he has said the same I wanted to say and perhaps now is most easy to understand.

Red · « **Reply #16 on:** January 07, 2014, 03:14:41 AM »

There is one solution for most of unfair situation.No training,no experience bonus no injures and energy effect.Fair for all,national teams only for best players.Small correction for league and training bonuses for players,change experience for present National team players.