Author Topic: [Suggestion] make all premium features available to everyone...at a cost (Read 6179 times)

Brian Clough · « **on:** March 04, 2012, 08:20:36 AM »

Quote from: buncombe on March 03, 2012, 08:20:29 AM

...At the very least, I hope that most, if not all, premium features will be available to non-premium managers on a limited basis, paid for with game money (G), energy. and/or credits on a weekly or per use basis. Not only would this encourage premium membership sales, but it would level the playing field for everyone involved, I think

some ideas I had:
1) let non-premium players purchase "additional staff" (at hire price plus weekly salary[G]) that would have the same effect as premium account on energy limits and regeneration. It could also provide analysis features for an additional cost (in G of course).
2) let non-premium users get the current "next match report" in club activities for energy/credit like souvenir booth (previously suggested in forum)
3) make credits revertible to tokens or provide credit option for for all token options (e.g. additional academy player for 24 credits)
...

On one hand, this way non-premium managers can "trial" all premium features much like we have been able to do, but at some in-game cost (G, credits, etc)

More importantly, I think it will provide a more level playing field in the game if all features were available to everyone. The only difference should be between spending game money (G) & energy or that of the real world. Non-premium users would still be at a disadvantage, but at least it wouldn't be so strictly in terms of real-world currency

Kr10s · « **Reply #1 on:** March 04, 2012, 10:02:54 AM »

In fact, sounds crazy but it might be worth.....

To me, at least 2 changes must be done:

Exchange Token option must be removed, if they want, put the option to hire a coach in exchange of some token, but with new training system, anybody can increase his team way too faster, if a player get injured, he can be recovered exchanging token into credits after all.
To me, the chance to use that magic should be fair to all users, credits must be earned.

Non premium users should have the chance to receive a player in loan, i wouldn't mind it they have restricted the chance to place a player in loan list, but have the chance to get a player from loan might even help premium users, their potential targets will be increased after all.

And finally, if possible.....

Let non premium users join custom cups, make them pay twice or three time each registration fee, but let them get that extra experience. It will make the game even more attractive, 3 games per week is a little less sometimes, that extra match came great to the game IMHO, it will keep users more active in the game.
And we want more active users, right?

marius.82 · « **Reply #2 on:** March 04, 2012, 10:04:56 AM »

i agree with you guys

Removed from double post, USE MODIFY BUTTON:

i believe that with out non premium users this game wont be the same, so they have to try keep non users motivated . if it is harder competing with other users is great. but if it is impossibil (and this is happening now) many users will quit, and then will go back in time to play against bot teams

Brian Clough · « **Reply #3 on:** March 04, 2012, 08:00:05 PM »

Quote from: mihutu on March 04, 2012, 04:56:22 PM

Quote from: buncombe on March 04, 2012, 08:20:36 AM

1) let non-premium players purchase "additional staff" (at hire price plus weekly salary[G]) that would have the same effect as premium account on energy limits and regeneration. It could also provide analysis features for an additional cost (in G of course).
2) let non-premium users get the current "next match report" in club activities for energy/credit like souvenir booth (previously suggested in forum)
3) make credits revertible to tokens or provide credit option for for all token options (e.g. additional academy player for 24 credits)
...

1. Against. you would pay G to get G from energy + use extra energy for condition and stuff. no way. this would be a feature unavailable to premium users, because a premium user cannot pay G to increase energy limit and regeneration. to be fair, premium users should pay G to double the limit to 400 and double the regeneration also.

2 Against. just because.

3. Not sure yet...

1. Depends on cost for me...35-50,000 G/week would effectively cancel out any additional G from club activities and make having the feature at least as painful as it is helpful.

2. just because? What if this cost 160 energy/2 credits per report?

3. $:-\$

Quote from: mihutu on March 04, 2012, 04:56:22 PM

Quote
Exchange Token option must be removed, if they want, put the option to hire a coach in exchange of some token, but with new training system, anybody can increase his team way too faster, if a player get injured, he can be recovered exchanging token into credits after all.
To me, the chance to use that magic should be fair to all users, credits must be earned.

personally, i wouldn't waste my tokens on that, but you never know, so i'm AGAINST.

Maybe what is needed are more chances to win credits via mini-game. Right now everyone gets a free "bet" for 1, 2 or 5 credits, but what if players could bet one or two credits to double or triple the returns from the mini-game? (e.g. betting 2 credits would provide 3, 6, or 15 credits plus bet)

Quote from: mihutu on March 04, 2012, 04:56:22 PM

Quote
Non premium users should have the chance to receive a player in loan

the loan feature should be removed for everybody. why should anyone not upgrade the training facilities, play only old, fully developed players and win everything, while having his young players trained in a friend's team for free? THIS IS CHEATING, even if it's legal.

Loan option provides new options and provides more realism to the game. I notice you never made any comments when loan options were being discussed in the forum over the past 6 months or so, but now you have feelings about it? Too late imho. I agree with carlosT...maybe make non-premium users have to pay a modest transfer fee for accepting player on loan (such as 25% of player est. value).

Quote from: mihutu on March 04, 2012, 04:56:22 PM

Quote
Let non premium users join custom cups, make them pay twice or three time each registration fee

eventually there might not be enough users to have a functional custom cup system, and if that's gonna happen, then i'll agree. yes, with a G penalty (not 2, 3 times the registration fee, but a fixed sum on top of the registration fee, maybe around 50.000 G per match. non-refundable in case they win the league!

Again I agree with CarlosT. I am personally trying to organize a Custom Cup in an attempt to replicate the CONCACAF Champions League, comprised of only top finishers in league and cup champions from real-world CONCACAF nations. We are having trouble getting 16 teams to participate (out of 35 invites), because some managers are concerned they won't be able to play once the 30 day trial period has expired. I don't want custom cups to be limited to premium users because of difficulties it would present in creating regional elite tournaments. I also agree with CarlosT on the cost (2-3X registration fee)...with the additional funds adding to the prize amounts. 50,000G per match is too much imo.

If you want an exclusive game, then go buy FM 2012. You'll never have to play non-paying users there. This is GKO, which is actively being marketed as a "free browser game" so I think all features should be available even to non-paying users in ways which still leave them at a disadvantage. Allowing managers to use premium features at a cost would entice more premium memberships too, because it would give new users a chance to trial premium features (and appreciate them). That's surely why everyone got a 30 day trial period with the recent changes. But you can't give new users a 30-day trial, because new users are usually quite inactive until they get "hooked" which, for me, wasn't until the end of the first season.

Kr10s · « **Reply #4 on:** March 05, 2012, 01:08:35 AM »

Quote from: mihutu on March 04, 2012, 04:56:22 PM

Quote
Exchange Token option must be removed, if they want, put the option to hire a coach in exchange of some token, but with new training system, anybody can increase his team way too faster, if a player get injured, he can be recovered exchanging token into credits after all.
To me, the chance to use that magic should be fair to all users, credits must be earned.

personally, i wouldn't waste my tokens on that, but you never know, so i'm AGAINST.

That's what i call a SOLID argument..... People pay to recover their injured player, and it's really unfair.

Quote from: mihutu on March 04, 2012, 04:56:22 PM

the loan feature should be removed for everybody. why should anyone not upgrade the training facilities, play only old, fully developed players and win everything, while having his young players trained in a friend's team for free? THIS IS CHEATING, even if it's legal.

As champione said, loan feature gives more realism to the game, and also provides new options. To me, this option is amazing, and not because "i can cheat". I'm going to use my squad as an example.....

First of all, look at my squad (you will find it clicking in my signature), i believe that, if there's something i have done is do that "upgrade facilities, develop players circle" but some changes in a team needs to be done with time. The fact is that my team defends with man marking because that's the system taht better fitted with the defenders i had from the beginning and i want to change it, i purchased only one player this season (age 21, CA5, Experience 1) and he's great to do zonal marking, but i have 2 defenders in development, now.... should i have him on the bench a full season until other players became ready? Should i place a weak defense, just to make you happy?
Loan option gave me a chance, this season won't be wasted for that player, i placed him in another team (older and stronger than mine) that needed a good DC and don't have enough money to purchase one.... this is my player and this is going to be his team this season, you can track him, in less than 10 days, his academy is going to be upgraded to okay quality, so i believe he's making that "improving facilities circle".
In the other hand, there're so many unexpected things in this game, that more than one manager will find it a great solution. We didn't know what changes could come this season, that's a fact. I sold my substitue keeper because it was no use having 2 keepers, suddenly i can lose my keeper from day to night... i promoted a keeper, but he's far from ready, i'm still trying to find a substitute because i decided not invest my money in a keeper that i wouldn't use, the better option were spend 600.000G in an upgraded physio because suddenly i'm going to need him.
And to add more, you can NOT control your promoted player's position.... i have 3 strikers in my squad, suddenly i can play friendly cups.... i need one more striker, but i didn't promote one! Thanks Sir Vio Ferguson for letting me have Rogoz R?zvan

Brian Clough · « **Reply #5 on:** March 05, 2012, 06:13:39 AM »

Quote from: mihutu on March 05, 2012, 05:06:00 AM

Quote
I notice you never made any comments when loan options were being discussed in the forum over the past 6 months or so, but now you have feelings about it? Too late imho.

now, why don't you get a job at a fast food cleaning toilets, floors or dishes for a week or so, put those money into a premium and then stop whining on forum. you know, it's really annoying seeing people beg for free stuff. you want it, work for it!

I bought a premium membership a while ago mate...so don't be preaching to me

I paid for it, if nothing else, to pay the developers for their work prior to the latest round of changes. I am simply a realist. Maybe you live in a place where fast food factories are in abundance...but the fact is that GKO is a global game, and many parts of the world don't have the same opportunities as you and I for wages.

If you had read my post more carefully, I never suggested that premium users sacrifice their advantage over non-premium users:

Quote from: buncombe on March 04, 2012, 08:00:05 PM

...This is GKO, which is actively being marketed as a "free browser game" so I think all features should be available even to non-paying users in ways which still leave them at a disadvantage....

I just don't want the quality of the GKO game experience to drop because some managers can't afford the price. The trade-offs I have proposed are not insignificant, and would not change the balance of the game from the latest changes. It would merely make all features accessible to everyone so it feels inclusive, which is important to attracting new (premium) users, imho. While many of us can make these trade-offs in the real world, those who can't should be able to make them in the game.

marius.82 · « **Reply #6 on:** March 05, 2012, 07:06:35 AM »

mihutu you need medical treatment , you have an obsession, do you really think that you are the only one who is working in this world. may be you think u r a hero or something. who r you to judge everybody ?

marius.82 · « **Reply #7 on:** March 05, 2012, 07:14:45 AM »

the fact that you are obsessed to create an advantage by using real money, make me believe u r not so smart, so you have to balance that by working in dangerous places. so stop giving use advises were to work or things like that .

Kr10s · « **Reply #8 on:** March 05, 2012, 09:29:53 AM »

mihutu...

1 - As you said, people can find a job if they want to, that's right.... if you choosed " that includes working outside your country, far away from the nice cold beer anytime you want it, away from any food that you love, away from any fun of some sorts, away from your family, friends and lover, but danger-close to the impact site of a few 120 mm rockets." that's none of our business, you choosed that after all, so, how you made your money is irrelevant.

2 - This game is not only played by grown up people, some of them are students, others are childs that won't work just because you want it to, some people is still planning their future, if they can stand a study without working, i believe it's fine.

3 - Premium membership is very expensive in some countries, i have a premium membership until 29 september because i worked in game translation, but i'm sure i'm going to pay for it if needed... i have a wife and a baby girl to feed (yes, i work, if that bothers you so much) but i can afford it, however, let me tell you, just a few argentinian managers are in condition to buy a premium membership right now.

4 - If you took the time to read my message, you'll see that i loaned a player and also receive one from loan.
The player i loaned was a CA5 player (valued 450.000G), he will play for sure. The player i receive will only play a few matches, you say that it will only help his owner? I can play friendly matches and make grow 10 extra players in my squad with it, without compromising my main team's condition, it's great for me too!

5 - And most importatn..... i don't need to pay and get advantage to win matches, do you?

gabrielis · « **Reply #9 on:** March 05, 2012, 12:29:22 PM »

Quote from: CarlosT on March 05, 2012, 09:29:53 AM

mihutu...

1 - As you said, people can find a job if they want to, that's right.... if you choosed " that includes working outside your country, far away from the nice cold beer anytime you want it, away from any food that you love, away from any fun of some sorts, away from your family, friends and lover, but danger-close to the impact site of a few 120 mm rockets." that's none of our business, you choosed that after all, so, how you made your money is irrelevant.

2 - This game is not only played by grown up people, some of them are students, others are childs that won't work just because you want it to, some people is still planning their future, if they can stand a study without working, i believe it's fine.

3 - Premium membership is very expensive in some countries, i have a premium membership until 29 september because i worked in game translation, but i'm sure i'm going to pay for it if needed... i have a wife and a baby girl to feed (yes, i work, if that bothers you so much) but i can afford it, however, let me tell you, just a few argentinian managers are in condition to buy a premium membership right now.

4 - If you took the time to read my message, you'll see that i loaned a player and also receive one from loan.
The player i loaned was a CA5 player (valued 450.000G), he will play for sure. The player i receive will only play a few matches, you say that it will only help his owner? I can play friendly matches and make grow 10 extra players in my squad with it, without compromising my main team's condition, it's great for me too!

5 - And most importatn..... i don't need to pay and get advantage to win matches, do you?

dont let him drag you to his level, just leave it

gabrielis · « **Reply #10 on:** March 05, 2012, 02:05:56 PM »

Quote from: mihutu on March 05, 2012, 01:21:55 PM

there are plenty of ways to make money, even as a kid. taking a paper route or chasing carts in a supermarket parking lot or helping an old neighbor carry his groceries are just a few examples, but of course it's a lot more comfortable to just stay at home in front of the computer and whine on the forum, beg for free stuff. wake up and smell the coffee, there's no such thing as a free lunch!

oh, yeah! if i can use the premium features to win a match against a free rider that stays at home whining on the forum instead of doing something useful and make an honest buck to pay for that package, then i'll be glad to! and the pleasure will be all mine.

take off your pink glasses and check an average wages in the world. a kid selling papers can earn more than workers gets in africa or asia. if you have no clue whats going on in the world then dont post at all

Kr10s · « **Reply #11 on:** March 05, 2012, 03:19:34 PM »

To me, posting anything else is meaningless, i already gave my opinion and my suggestion to the staff, changes that i believe would help the game to be more fair and attractive to non paid users. But, since it seems mihutu lost an eye or something like that, i am going to say one thing really loud:

PEOPLE SUGGESTING CHANGES HERE ARE NOT FREE USERS, SOME OF THEM ALREADY PAID THEIR SUSCRIPTIONS, OTHERS WORKED FOR GAME DEVELOPERS IN TRANSLATION ISSUES, AND THEY RECEIVED MEMBERSHIP ACCOUNTS AS REWARD

That said, i only going to add that a victory wihtout effort in fair circunstances, is bitter to me...... win a match because i paid for some advantage is not something i'd like to have, i'd rather work with my team, with everything i have at hand, analyzing matchs, scouting players and trying to figure out what might hurt my oponent... a victory under those circunstancer are far more satifying to me, but if somebody is lazy or incompetent to do it and need to pay for it, it's their problem.

My way of thinking is that all users should have the same tools, premium users should have them wihtout any penalty but normal users should have them too! Also, i believe that some features that don't affect their team's performance should be granted to premium users, but if fairness is so compromised, eventually, the game will be only filled with paid users, and then, newbies will complain that they play against bot teams (requesting to be in active leagues), older users will request that newbies earn their places there (and if they spent so many time in the game, they might be right).
Now, what would happen if the game is filled only with active users (having new teams lasting less than 2 months if they are not premium) and having that premium membership don't grant you absolutely nothing? Just think about it.

That's all for me, i already said all i have in mind, i'm not one of those dumbasses that needs to have the last word on everything, so i'm leaving this post, i'll only going to control it as a moderator, but i'm not interested in posting here anymore.

@mihutu we'll meet in WCC eventually, and your premium membership is NOT going to help you, believe me

Brian Clough · « **Reply #12 on:** March 05, 2012, 10:08:55 PM »

The bottom line is that GKO has been, and continues to be, marketed as a free online game:

So if it wants to do that, then all features should be free (in terms of RW money), whether like hattrick or for in-game money/credits. If some features are not going to be available to everyone for "free" then the marketing strategy should be changed.

I agree with lordaust on all points. I would have purchased a premium even if it provided no advantages whatsoever. My final thought...well lordaust put it best, so I'll just quote:

Quote from: lordaust on March 05, 2012, 09:56:43 PM

I hope GKO some day change their thought of mind, and only provide premium features which save time. For example advanced searching, extra statistical information, more shortlist slots, advanced transfer autobids, transfer object whitelist or opponent scouting. I have no problem with features that helps if one can do the same just by putting in time and effort. (You should see my Excel file. Woha! That has taken me some time.)

We also shouldn't overlook the fact that "trial versions" of premium features would help managers contemplating whether to purchase a premium or not, which is what we all got, anyway. After all, the best way to attract customers for a new product is to give a little away first, right?

Kr10s · « **Reply #13 on:** March 05, 2012, 10:17:27 PM »

Quote from: buncombe on March 05, 2012, 10:08:55 PM

I agree with lordaust on all points. I would have purchased a premium even if it provided no advantages whatsoever. My final thought...well lordaust put it best, so I'll just quote:

Only to be clear, i said it LOTS of times, i was willing to pay if needed, i love this game too.... only the money that i saved in 1 Xbox 360 game already cover a 1 year suscription. This game have everything to become the greatest online manager, what's for sure, but first, it need more active users... such a huge advantage to those who pay, is not the best way to attract new users IMHO.