POLL: MotS?????

[firecloud0102]

Mots leads change , and the world need change . So, it's OK.   

[chefo]

There are actually still people that want to keep it LOL
I'd agree keeping it only if it's effect gets nerfed (weakened) to the amount of a Good / V.Good stadium and its restricted to league, seems the most fair.

[Kr10s]

I received my fourth MotS yesterday, so i can throw up my anger here 

To be honest, i understand that people might need to use MotS, and i don't think they are a bad feature, but in the way i look at it, things are unbalanced. IMHO, MotS should remain, but some things must change:

* Its effect should be reduced, at least on keepers: When the oponent uses mots, scoring against them becomes a chimera, if you are strong enough you can still dominate the match against a team using MotS, but still you find an extra barrier there, and all of us knows that weaker teams might need a miserable long shot to score when they are dominated, that is really frustrating sometimes.

* If a team uses MotS, it's clearly doing an extra effort, then reflect it on the game: An extra condition loss would reflect that effort (maybe 15 condition points in league?) and also would add another strategic use (you would think about using MotS twice if you have another important match a few days closer)

* Team that receives MotS shouldn't suffer morale drops: That is the biggest damage that MotS creates, you can lose a cup match because of MotS and your league chances drops significantly, MotS creates a huge collateral damage sometimes.

* They should be removed from international competitions: That would bring fairness between WCC/no WCC temas and that's the only way that a WCC champion would be really considered strong by others, also it will increase the competition level. I have seen some crappy teams playing WCC because they used their MotS in Qualifying rounds, then when they reaches group stage they've got nothing to prove thier worth (a friend had to face a team level 540 lol). Despite some teams are good or not, the only WCC champion that proved to be strong is superfrancis fc in season 6, he managed to win WCC and italian top level at the same time, other WCC champions didn't need to play full strengh in league and saved their MotS for WCC.
If we remove MotS in international competition, at least new WCC champion will get rid of that "you used MotS in WCC because you don't need it in league" burden, we will have more respectable WCC champions from now on, because "lack of competition" won't change, but at least that team will win the competition because its own strength, that will be a step forward IMHO.

[Ologga]

If they don't want to remove mots at least they must make a modification like:

-give the same number of mots for each team, each competition, and can't use them in other competitions.
-let use mots only in league.
-reduce their power to an anecdotal level.

there are enough solutions for satisfy everybody but at the moment, everybody hates the current system. Even, at the moment mots can be used for cheat too, ... there are many reasons for adopt solutions.

[Ponggo]

Please take out MOTS. Thailand league have many problem with MOTS

 

[LieCheatNsteal]

if totally remove MOTS sure on benefits top teams only.... it will never happen things like bradford eliminate arsenal in GKO, i support the need/dream of weaker teams chances to beat high tier teams..... i too step on the top of the league in malaysia league and shot by MOTS multiple times and i quite hate it ..... but under general thinking the need of MOTS is still important ........ but plz reduce the effect of Mots in league or make the team player that take part in MOTS matchs morale to OKAY ...

[xerexy]

I would like to give one sugestion about mots:

REPLACE IT with sistem like this, introduce new way of performace of team that will be thight with condition:

- ALL Players under 92 condition should suffer greater penalty than it is now
- Introduce system like this

 1 play werry easy game - team plays easy without much effort and their ability is reduced cca 30% but lose only 2 condition per that game
 2 Play Easy game           - team perform with ability reduced cca 15% but lose only 5 condition per game
 3 Play normal game        - team perform normal and lose 10 condition per game
 4 Play motivated game   - team perform cca 15% bether than usual (normal) but condition lost is 16 per that game
 5 Play MOTS                    - team perform at cca 30% bether than normal or something like that and players lose 25 codition per game like that

- remove posibility to increase condition with credits or energy, implement that doctor level will generate more condition per game like this

Doctor lvl 1 player condition increase 1 per day lvl 2 player condition increase 2 per day lvl 3 player condition increase  3 , Lvl 4 increase 4 lvl 5 increase 5, and ADD posibility that player instead training can train and rest to gain aditionaly condition.

This should give posibilities to manage players condition play various strategies and make game more interesting + game will not be posible to play with 12-13 active players but teams in 3 competitions will have replacements and market will get live again.

I hope someone like my idea and sorry for my bad english

[Ologga]

I would like to give one sugestion about mots:

REPLACE IT with sistem like this, introduce new way of performace of team that will be thight with condition:

- ALL Players under 92 condition should suffer greater penalty than it is now
- Introduce system like this

 1 play werry easy game - team plays easy without much effort and their ability is reduced cca 30% but lose only 2 condition per that game
 2 Play Easy game           - team perform with ability reduced cca 15% but lose only 5 condition per game
 3 Play normal game        - team perform normal and lose 10 condition per game
 4 Play motivated game   - team perform cca 15% bether than usual (normal) but condition lost is 16 per that game
 5 Play MOTS                    - team perform at cca 30% bether than normal or something like that and players lose 25 codition per game like that

- remove posibility to increase condition with credits or energy, implement that doctor level will generate more condition per game like this

Doctor lvl 1 player condition increase 1 per day lvl 2 player condition increase 2 per day lvl 3 player condition increase  3 , Lvl 4 increase 4 lvl 5 increase 5, and ADD posibility that player instead training can train and rest to gain aditionaly condition.

This should give posibilities to manage players condition play various strategies and make game more interesting + game will not be posible to play with 12-13 active players but teams in 3 competitions will have replacements and market will get live again.

I hope someone like my idea and sorry for my bad english

+1   I like your idea a lot.
your english is enough understable.

[LieCheatNsteal]

that idea ...  denied

[Kr10s]

...

Your idea seems nice at first sight, but when you put it on paper, that's the worst thing you can do, and let me tell you why:

Imagina a squad filled with... CA7 players? All of them  CA=LA or CA>LA.

Improving your phisio to level 3 cost 1.600.000G in total (you rarely get a CA7 player with that money).
Considering that those players won't improve from daily training, the best thing you could do is set him as "rest" and those players would be recovering 6 condition points each day (18 points between each league match minimum), so big teams would be playing motivated mode in EVERY league match, so you would be granted them almost 30 mots to be used, just in league! If the squad is bigger it could be playing MotS ALWAYS, not to menction that physio can be improved up to level 5, you could be playing motivated mode always, even if players are not set as "rest".

This "medicine" would be a lot worst than "the sickness".

[xerexy]

...

Your idea seems nice at first sight, but when you put it on paper, that's the worst thing you can do, and let me tell you why:

Imagina a squad filled with... CA7 players? All of them  CA=LA or CA>LA.

Improving your phisio to level 3 cost 1.600.000G in total (you rarely get a CA7 player with that money).
Considering that those players won't improve from daily training, the best thing you could do is set him as "rest" and those players would be recovering 6 condition points each day (18 points between each league match minimum), so big teams would be playing motivated mode in EVERY league match, so you would be granted them almost 30 mots to be used, just in league! If the squad is bigger it could be playing MotS ALWAYS, not to menction that physio can be improved up to level 5, you could be playing motivated mode always, even if players are not set as "rest".

This "medicine" would be a lot worst than "the sickness".

My friend you didn't understand THIS IS IDEA usualy in games like this things go :

1. Idea
2. TEST -> like numbers all are cc so this need testing
3. if TEST say it is good and can be done then IMPLEMENTIND
4. after on market (or here in game) season in REAL GAME TESTING
5. FINE ADJUSTMENT

And you have product.

So I gave idea, testing and numbers are on GKO staff to resolve it and test it numbers in my proposition are just example!

[chefo]

My friend you didn't understand THIS IS IDEA usualy in games like this things go :

1. Idea
2. TEST -> like numbers all are cc so this need testing
3. if TEST say it is good and can be done then IMPLEMENTIND
4. after on market (or here in game) season in REAL GAME TESTING
5. FINE ADJUSTMENT

And you have product.

So I gave idea, testing and numbers are on GKO staff to resolve it and test it numbers in my proposition are just example!

Your suggestion sounds really familiar, are you sure you didnt take it from another manager or smth? xD
Anyway it doesnt fit in this one. We dont rly need such huge changes (I dont see them done either), stick to "easier to do" ones like remove mots or restrict it.

[xerexy]

nice I gave Idea and you are against it reasons are complicated, similar to something (no it is not copied just my thoughts), I tried please delete that sugestion you are right it is stupid one ... 

[Kr10s]

My friend you didn't understand THIS IS IDEA usualy in games like this things go :

1. Idea
2. TEST -> like numbers all are cc so this need testing
3. if TEST say it is good and can be done then IMPLEMENTIND
4. after on market (or here in game) season in REAL GAME TESTING
5. FINE ADJUSTMENT

And you have product.

So I gave idea, testing and numbers are on GKO staff to resolve it and test it numbers in my proposition are just example!

With all respect, this is GKO, testing is an unknown word, usually we are the lab mice.
I don't want to play MotS 24/7 until they find a "balance". it would mean at least a season ruined.

[Rasha]

MotS can stay if players from that team who use MotS lose double energy in that match.

In other way MotS need to be removed.

[Andy]

Hi Everyone,

I think the forum is great place to put ideas and then we can all pick them up, play with them and maybe come up with some great ideas. So in that respect well done xerexy it was a nice suggestion. I definitely like the idea of more focussed play = more condition points used up. I also think the idea of been able play easy for less condition points is neat - it lends itself to the realistic situation of a team under estimating an opposition.

Here are two ideas of my own:

1) Managers could be allowed to choose a tactic called "counter-MOTS". This means a team can react to an oppoasition playing a MOTs by playing  their own MOTS. This could be automatic or the game engine could test the captains ability i.e. a captian with high influence has more chance of getting the team to react than a captain with low influence.

2) Condition. Everyone has made good suggestions about changing the rules about using condition with regard to MOTS but I think the changes should go further. My take on the current game engine is that players who start a game with low condition are penalised and then at the end of the game every player loses the same amount of condition.


I would like the amount of condition lost by a player to be influenced by stamina. so players with high stamina lose less points. I would like the game engine to graduallly remove condition thoughout the game, in this way the perfomance of tired players gradually gets worse. This makes the attribute Stamina more important and substitutions become more important too. I know some people think this already happens in the game but the manual says nothing about it and I have seen no evidence of it happening in games.

[Kr10s]

I know some people think this already happens in the game but the manual says nothing about it and I have seen no evidence of it happening in games.

Compare a match between 2 low stamina teams with another match played between 2 high stamina teams:

* When both teams have low stamina rates, scoring chances decreases greatly after '60.
* When one team has high stamina rates and the other doesn't, the first team dominates the last 30 minutes, if your "more roamming" tactic is high enough (compared with your opponent's OMR) the gap is even higher. A low stamina team packed behind can be easily defeated after '60 if you are skilled in roaming and your stamina rate is high enough.
* When both teams have high stamina rates, the match doesn't drop its pace, match situations are still there after '60

In the way i look at it, stamina is really useful.

[Andy]

Thanks Carlos, I have no idea how you come up with such a detailed analysis but I will take it onboard and look for some games like this myself .

with regards to condition. I have played against teams with low condition but seen  no noticeable  drop in performance  in last 30 mins.  Do you have any observations about this too?

[Kr10s]

No, it's not entirely related in performance, it's about game situations. Some matches seems frozen after '60, suddenly there's no dribbling no corners, no long shots, nothing! I turned the odds in my favor many times and the only reason i find is because stamina.
And for sure, more roaming is far more efficient after '60 and the clearest chances comes there.

You have a clear example here (look how a balanced match turned on my favor in the last minutes): http://www.gokickoff.com/team_match_detail.php?match_id=5130851
This is another example, look how suddenly a team packed with 3DCs and a DMC received clear scoring situations in the box in the last minutes, despite i were using only one striker! http://www.gokickoff.com/nation_match_detail.php?match_id=10285

EDIT: My bad, you asked about condition, honestly i didn't notice a performance drop when condition is lower than 100% and higher than 92%

[xerexy]

In first game you changed tactic in min 60 (I asume to all atack + something else) that shoul be posible reason for that, in second match same thing notice posesion on half time and on end of the game in both cases you instructed I asume more attacking formation and those changes generated more posesion and opened space for you.

btw

I noticed in first game and opened situation for opponent too, so you have not convinced me with this stamina explanation but I'll take tests too as that could be interesting triger to use in future!

[Kr10s]

In first game you changed tactic in min 60 (I asume to all atack + something else) that shoul be posible reason for that

Read the chat discussion, i clearly said that i played more roaming 

[xerexy]

In first game you changed tactic in min 60 (I asume to all atack + something else) that shoul be posible reason for that

Read the chat discussion, i clearly said that i played more roaming 

I did

In this game
http://www.gokickoff.com/team_match_detail.php?match_id=5130851
you played on start
defensive very dinamic zone marking and MORE ROAMING
At half time possesion was
oth teams went into the half time break which ALCOLIZZATI took the lead.possession in the match, while ALCOLIZZATI had 55%.

At min 60 you changed tactic and on the end of the game your possesion was like this
Possession    51%

now that tactical change did all and you played more roaming from the start, and you claim that more roaming was reason of your chances to the end of the game I thing that is not correct, but I can be wrong so will try to test that!

[Andy]

Well nice games Carlos. One way or the other you are an expert GKO tactician!!

[Kr10s]

both teams went into the half time break which ALCOLIZZATI took the lead.possession in the match, while ALCOLIZZATI had 55%.

you played on start
defensive very dinamic zone marking and MORE ROAMING

Should i have more posession than ALCOLIZZATTI if i played 30 minutes at defensive stance?

I NEVER said that i enabled more roaming at '60, i said that more roaming became more efficient after '60.

And NO, i didn't change to all attack, i didn't need that back then, i was qualifying to the next round even losing 3-0, what need would i have to reduce my defense's efectiveness there, just to get more possesion? Chances were there, i only needed to help the ONLY midfielder i had in the field, just placed the defensive line a little closer than the AMC, that's all.

You can believe me or not, it's up to you 

[Brian Clough]

How do upsets happen in the RW? This season, how did Celtic beat Barcelona in the UCL group stage? How did Blackburn and Bradford City both beat Arsenal in cup matches?  How did Macclesfield Town beat Cardiff City?

There is no simple answer to this, but there are usually two reasons:
1) The stronger side played without (most of) its first XI
2) The weaker side "parked the bus", used counter attack, and got lucky

The way I see it, GKO has ALL of these tactical options without mots. I have seen top quality clubs in GKO unable to score a goal against a much weaker side even without a mots. How do they do it? See no. 2 above. We have these tactical settings, and don't need mots. I see no reason to keep mots in the game.

1) Managers could be allowed to choose a tactic called "counter-MOTS". This means a team can react to an oppoasition playing a MOTs by playing  their own MOTS. This could be automatic or the game engine could test the captains ability i.e. a captian with high influence has more chance of getting the team to react than a captain with low influence.

I made a similar suggestion a while ago, the possibility to play a MotS at halftime based on the scoreline like a regular tactical change managers could use when facing an opponent who might be using a MotS. Of course, admin never weighed in on the subject...